Hey Guys!
Okay, I hope this is not already on the thread, because I've been searching as much as I can. Now, I'd like to be an animator someday as many of you want to be or already are and I was curious.
Considering the plot and today's audience, what do you guys think would hold an audience on an animated feature?
There are so many different ways to work a story. Do you think there's any certain way to hold their attention on a film ? I've read about some of your opinions about what should go into the story:
action, emotion, conflicts, etc.
Is there a certain genre that more popular than others? I like to work in fantasy, to let my imagination run wild.
Maybe there's something we don't see enough of. Would there be a certain element that would be too risky to put into a plot? I'm an anime fan and I know some of what's in most of them can be, well, disturbing.
Of course one fact to keep in mind is that a film may not appeal to everyone. Perhaps some films would do better in live-action or maybe the other way around.
It seems lately that all movies and shows (most are) are striving too hard to turn their film into a box office hit. Every minute you have someone say "it's the #1 hit in america".
It gets annoying.
How would you know when you are trying to hard on an idea?
No doubt, the appeal of audiences will change in the future. People keep discussing how crowds are decreasing in the theatres. One factor is price, another is most likey the plot.
Thanks. :)
Jump in on any of the above.
Don't worry. Those of you who suggest certain books to read about story and animation, I'll take a look at them. I love to read.
No-one knows what makes a hit. No-one.
Its really hit or miss.
You could have an excellent animated film like Iron Giant, and have no audience for it. That happened.
You could have a movie that a lot of critics panned--like DaVinci Code or X-men Last Stand--and it breaks records on opening weekend.
There is no common ground.
The best course is to have a solid, engaging story and good marketing. Showing audiences something that is both different and familliar at the same time is also a good idea.
Bear in mind that cartoons in North America are typically marketed towards young children, so "serious" anime productions get limited release, or the short shrift, because mass-audiences ignorantly think cartoons are just for young children.
There's nothing that is going to change that notion, I'm afraid.
You'd get a bigger audience for a Pokemon movie than you would for a Spirtited Away simply because the movie-going crowds at large just don't give a hang about artistry in film.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I disagree about plot. The thing that is keeping audiences away is the hassle.
Its easier and far, FAR more comfortable to see a movie at home, on DVD and without rude and ignorant crowds spoiling the theatre experience.
There's no line-ups, no grotesque bathrooms, and no parking hassles.
Once studios start fielding really good direct-to-DVD product ( and its inevitable) they can get a similar take ( thought it might take longer) and avoid the jockeying at the theatres.
DVD sales don't have the politicking of a theatrical release because viewers are already committed to the film when they line up to buy it.
You don't have to worry as much about your film being swallowed by a competing blockbuster because--if its marketed right--people will by it anyway, mostly for curiousity.
Home theatre is replacing commercial theatres and, as a consumer, I might miss the mass-audience vibe of a theatre experience, but I sure don't miss the hassles.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Ken, I think that beyond the hassle, what is keeping audiences at home now is the ease of downloading pictures. I mean, films are not even released yet, and people are already downloading bootlegs. Somehow, they are top quality sometimes too, as if it was a legal copy. This is a big busniess in Asia, selling bootlegs for a dollar or two a copy (or a few Yen/Rupees).
But yes, I do agree with your points. DVDs come out so rapidly now after a film has left the theater, that there is just no reason to go to the theater to see 'em. The average schmoe does not appreciate the big screen quality in a film. They just want to see it the cheapest and most comfortable way possible.
That being said, I believbe it is all in the marketing. I mean, look at "Hoodwinked", the most HORRIBLE PIECE OF ANIMATED TRASH ever made. It did quite well considering what it is... Marketing saved it.
By the way, Ken... I may be moving out to your neck of the woods here soon. You are in Vancouver, yeah?
Cheers
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
Wade--I'm no longer in Vancouver--or the Lower Mainland-proper, I'm about 5 hours north in the BC interior. The start of the Cariboo--about 2 hours northwest of Kamloops. I MIGHT be back down to the coast again, or I might not.......it depends on so many things...
If you are moving into the Lower Mainland itself, I think you will find it to be much like the Toronto area, with the exception of the harsh eastern winters, a LOT more rain, and nicer sushi bars.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I don't know of anyone who doesn't appreciate the "big screen quality" of a film. When it comes to movies, everyone acknowledges that a bigger picture is better.
However, that "big screen" experience is flushed every 10 minutes in the theater when you're drawn out of the movie by ...[LIST]
[*]crying babies
[*]the idiot behind you kicking the back of your seat
[*]kids asking their parents what's going on
[*]morons carrying on conversations throughout the picture
[*]people in front of you leaving and returning to their seats
[*]having to use the can but not being able to pause the movie
[*]a crappy seat so you have to view the movie at an angle[/LIST]On top of all this, ...[LIST]
[*]for a family, a movie can cost $30-40 in a theater compared to $1-2 to rent it.
[*]If you want a snack during the movie, theater food costs 10 times as much as it does from a store.
[*]You can't watch a movie in a theater whenever you want as you can at home. You have to plan your entire evening around it.[/LIST]Compared to all that, "big screen quality" isn't much of a benefit.
I don't see the theaters closing down any time soon though.
They are still doing huge business. People like to go out occasionally, and in most towns there is little for them to do besides eat some fast food and go to the movies.
Don't forget the cell-phones, Harvey... Never forget the cell phones.
I am not saying that people don't appreciate the big screen at all... But given the choice of paying $40 for their family to see a movie (and that does not even include popcorn and soda) and having to deal with your afore mentioned crap... The average schmoe will download the damned thing and watch it in the comfort of his/her own home. People like me, movie afficionados if you will, will tough out all those things and see it on the big screen anyways, as that is where I will enjoy the work the most.
Cheers
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
I can't imagine a world without the cinema. I'll be the next row down from Wade...
Just be sure your cell phone is off. Hehehe
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
I also wouldn't be caught dead or alive with a cellphone. Apparently the only person left in the universe like that.
Don't fret, there is help of the cell phone-phobic. Call 555-9111 from any cell phone and one of our operators will gently guide you toward the right medication to overcome this socially deviant behavior.
Good Luck,
Alan
:D
Get some "Good Advice" at http://www.decksawash.net
Good luck freelancing without a cel phone. You miss the call, the next guy on the list gets the job.
I don't own one either Scattered, and not in a hurry to get one. I think people put too much emphasis on being always available. Hey there are times when I don't want to talk on the phone.
I bet there aren't many that remember the old saying "They'll call back. If they don't it can't be that important".
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
I learned this lesson when job hunting a couple of years ago. Very true, especially these days where many very qualified people are competing for not quite enough jobs...
I cannot use a cel phone.
They literally jam my hearings aids, something about the electronic field they have around them.
I don't have too much difficulty getting work either, it seems to find me just fine.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I am not in law inforcement or the medical field. My work isn't all that important in the big scheme of things. I feel I can take a sh*t or drive without having to answer a dam* phone.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
That's a difference between you Ken, a veteran artist with a track record, and a young animator like Scattered.
It would be very bad advice to tell a recent grad that they don't need a mobile phone.
On top of that, many of us participate in the film world as much as the desk-chained animation universe. The mobile phone is absolutely vital on a shoot.
They're terrible audio quality and probably cause brain cancer, and are furthermore a blight to polite society -but they're a great tool for movie making.
If you make yourself available all the time for any reason what does that say about how you value your time. Think employers see you as more valuable if you can drop whatever you are doing at anytime. I think you need to rethink your priorities a little bit. But that's the current trend. Hope it works out well for you youngsters.
Scattered has priorities of his own. And I think he's doing fine without a cellphone in his pocket.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Here's how dumb we can be as a species...
A few years back, people were freaking out about EMF in cell phones and how it might cause brain cancer or some other horrible disease during the short time one held the phone up to one's ear for a conversation. So everyone started using corded headsets to reduce or eliminate the problem.
Now everyone's switching to bluetooth wireless headsets, walking around looking like androids with some device clamped to their ear that sends out an electronic signal CONSTANTLY, whether you're actually talking or not! I guess we're willing to risk brain cancer if it means not having some pesky wire connecting an earpiece to our phone...
What's everyone talking about...is all that earthshaking?
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Oh yeah, those can cause loss of hair.
(A robot called Lobot - that's how ingeneous the old Star Wars trilogy was, heh.)
I don't own a cel phone, either, but I could easily get one if need arose. For the moment, however, ring tones, movies and games and especially commercials for them are the bane of the civilised world as far as I'm concerned.
For the moment, however, ring tones, movies and games and especially commercials for them are the bane of the civilised world as far as I'm concerned.[/quote]
Couldn't agree more. I'm becoming a luddite in this area. When my cell phone rings, it rings; it doesn't play Who Let The Dogs Out.
*quickly takes Who Let the Dogs Out off as his ringtone. :D
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
LO freakin' L :D:D:D
For me, having had a career already I don't really "need" the constant links.
Email and land-lines work fine for me in my current situation. I'm in a "what-they-hey" kind of mode these days.......if work comes, then great. If it doesn't, then I'm not going to fret about it.
However, you are correct for someone starting out......the better/more diverse the communication links they have are the better chance they will have landing work in the biz. Being instantly accessible is of enormous advantage today.
But me, I LIKE playing hermit! :p
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
story, characters, screenplay, FX
comedy
mediocrity
your brain explodes
Blackwolf, to expand on an answer for your question about what in a film holds an audience's attention, here is a simple exercize for you:[LIST=1]
[*]Watch a movie.
[*]Tell yourself what it is you liked about the movie.[/LIST]
I know a few people aren't huge fans, but since you left yourself open to recommendation I just got the book "Story" by Robert McKee on tape, and my feelings is that the most basic answers your looking for are dealt with pretty swiftly in the beginning of that material. It's also really cheap =)
You could also do what Harvey said on a huge scale, like Rivers Cuomo, and just look at every well-performing movie ever made seeing if there are threads of continuity and implement them into your own flick. (See: "Hash Pipe," "Island in the Sun")
"Brush up your Shakespeare." The keys to his success were great stories, compelling characters and universal themes. The keys to Pixar's successes have been great stories, compelling characters and universal themes.
Alan
Get some "Good Advice" at http://www.decksawash.net
How about a story with lots of sax and violins?:D
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
[/U] email:
larry.lauria@gmail.com
I've noted that attitudes like this are instrumental in the decay of our society.:rolleyes:
Get some "Good Advice" at http://www.decksawash.net
If you've read any Joseph Campbell, what he stresses is that the greatest artists are always trying to share part of their own life experience with their audience. Without the honest attempt to share part of yourself, there really is no art only the marketing of a product.
Will that guarrantee success and profitability, probaly not, will your work be remembered, more so than something concocted merely to meet the marketing standards of the day. Like Iron Giant, perhaps it wasn't a success in it's time, but it's one of the most loved feature animations ever made.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Yea, but how many slides uphill are any fun????:rolleyes:
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I think AlanO was playing off Larry's comment about Sax and Violins. "Instrumental"....get it?
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Its all music to my ears...........eyes..............ah, y'know.........
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Ken, stop it before you get into treble... :D