Why are a lot of shows trying to imitate anime? Is it because anime is so popular or something? Like the show Teen Titans and Totally Spies are all trying to look like anime. I don't have anything against anime mind you but I wanna know why on earth would you wanna imitate it. Maybe because it's the most popular animated stuff these days I dunno.
It's funny. Anime was born from imitating Disney. Now the americans are imitating anime and Disney is falling apart.
God's sense of humor is kinda bitter.
danielpoeira.org
I personally think it's a marketing decision in light of popularity of Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh etc. I think it's ok to be influenced by Japanese Animation, But when any non Japanese imitates it , it comes off very stilted. These cartoons; Teen Titans, Martin Mystery etc, seem to think Japanese animation is just a series of stock cartoon symbols. I think Anime actually describes a very broad range of varied styles and these North American preproduced cartoons miss the mark.
i think its because younger viewers find it more appealing, an then the shows get good reviews.
If one person enjoys it, it was worth all the effort :D .
~Gurcharn Birdi
I agree with Grapiteman about them missing the mark on what anime is. I like "Teen Titans" myself and though it emulates anime, you can still tell it is an American production.
Hey, Birdman, is that Vash the Stampede in your avatar? ;)
2-D animation will never die. The invention of photography did not kill painting. Why would animation be any different?
Dancing Cavy Productions
http://dancingcavy.deviantart.com
(My Opinion)
I immediately dismiss anime cartoons when I see them. Drawing in an anime style shows that you have been strongly influenced, and that's hard to tolerate. It is not a natural way to draw. It looks very finessed and worked over to the point of being grotesque.
It's also very cutesy most of the time, even when the characters are monsters. Either that or it tries to be hip by giving boy characters spikey hair and angles. It's nasty stuff.
For some reason, anime, to me, seems like the clothing equivalent of capri pants with a thong bikini sticking out the back! It's hard to take anyone seriously who wears things like that.
Also, why does anime always have airships?
I can see how kids would like anime, though. Kids don't develop a good sense of artistic appreciation until college or later.
I agree with you here for the most part. The only anime I really like is
Hayao Miyazaki's works like "Spirited Away" and "Princess Mononoke". No where in Miyazaki's movies (that I know of) do anything that the modern TV "Pokemon", "DBZ" garbage does like those big sweat drops and those idiot facial expressions. Miyazaki is probably the best animation director of all time. Other than Miyazaki's works a lot of anime is GARBAGE.
Some new american TV series have been influenced by anime without emulating it, more like they UNDERSTOOD it and LIKE it instead of "let's make it look like anime just because it's the hype".
My favorite example and my favorite C.N. show today: SAMURAI JACK
---
I hope more people like Arna will look through the huge wall of bullshit anime that covers the more interesting works. Dissing all anime just because most of it sucks is like thinking that american music is ridiculous based only on Aaron Carter and Britney Spears. Don't loose your faith, there is a LOT of GREAT anime out there... :)
I was watching Starblazers last night for the first time in 20 years... brought a lot of water to my eyes... *chuinfs!*
danielpoeira.org
American cartoons are made by executives of large companies. All they do is look at what show's are getting good ratings and then try and copy those shows. Poke Mon was/is huge. Most studios passed on the show, and then when it got huge, they all scrambled to pick up their own clones. So now there is a big following of anime now. The execs see this and try to emulate it.
As for anime being good or bad, as an animator I try to watch as many different styles of animation as I can objectively. Not everything has to be Disneyesqe to be good. There are some things I like about anime, and some things I dislike about Disney films. We as animators have to open our pallets to a wide range of styles. If we focus solely on one, it will look just like all the others and won't stand out as being original.
Aloha,
The Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Samurai Jack ist the best!! It's probably the best show (and best animation) on C.N. Now I can tell it was influenced by anime but it still looks american.
I'm not sure I even know what anime is. Is all animation from Asia called anime, including independently made films like Mt. Head? I looked it up on dictionary.com and here is what it said: A style of animation developed in Japan, characterized by stylized colorful art, futuristic settings, violence, and sex.
That sounds like it is not most of the festival films made in Japan. I like many of these festival type films. I saw a lot of those by the time I finished school recently. As long as they don't rely on the tired character design stlye of those anime shows with sailor suits and schoolgirl uniforms, big eyeballs, no nose, spikey hair, I'm usually ok with it.
The type of anime of that dictionary description is so out of the realm of what I like that I can safely dismiss it, without losing out. Of course, I see that type of anime in different siuations but I don't seek it out.
It's like anything...comic books for example. If you are a fan of Fantagraphics, you most likely don't seek out superhero comics. You know enough about them to not waste too much time or money on them. They are out of the realm of being useful to you.
And it's not like you are a bigot if you don't like a stlye of art. It's all about personal taste. I can categorically say that I dislike caricature art, goth art, rap music, techno music, and...wait for it...anime.
Woooow. Thats overly broad in places, and overly specific in others. I've seen plenty of anime that has no sex in it, not to mention a sincere lack of "futuristic settings". I think anime has a certain look and feel to it, but it sounds to me like the guy that wrote this dictionary entry had maybe watched 3 anime films to get the summation.
Anyone wishing to know what anime is should read Susan Napier's book Anime: Akira to Princess Mononoke. It is extremely informative and I highly recommend it.
I for one never used to like anime. I thought it was stupid and couldn't see what drew people to it. I thought it was lazy animation that consisted just of pans and barely-animated action shots. However, after seeing Princess Mononoke (one of my favorite animated films of all time) I started to change my mind. After my friends introduced me to InuYasha, I started to really like anime. I've added some more shows to my list of favorites and have found I really like the originality of it. There are so many different storylines that do not appear in American/Western television shows and movies. I have also found some really nice shots within the shows that I like. Sure, the animation is limited in the television series, but it's going to be. It is in domestically-animated shows as well.
I have found, however, that people who do not open their mind to anime will not like it. Once you give it a chance, it seems to grow on you. :D
2-D animation will never die. The invention of photography did not kill painting. Why would animation be any different?
Dancing Cavy Productions
http://dancingcavy.deviantart.com
This is true to most things in life. I think it's better to have a little of everything than being an expert on only one thing. I'd rather know what I like in each kind of art instead of choosing the kinds I like and dislike and becoming an expert on something.
I still recomend Graves of the Fireflies for anyone who wants to know some "different" anime. It's the kind of movie even a mom would like! :D
danielpoeira.org
I have yet to see "Grave of the Fireflies." I've heard it is excellent yet very very sad.
2-D animation will never die. The invention of photography did not kill painting. Why would animation be any different?
Dancing Cavy Productions
http://dancingcavy.deviantart.com
Not all anime is Hokemon or DragonBall Z. A lot of it is very stylized and poetic. Try not to close your mind to different styles. I find they take more time to tell their stories and develop their characters.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Maybe this sounds archly naive (and given that lots of animation studios deliberately try to riff on the anime look, it's understandable how folks would think that's the whole of the situation) but don't forget also, that we learn to draw what we see, and we are now seeing the first turns of the style wheel not influenced only by Disney or Warner Bros. A whole generation of animators who grew up with anime are beginning to come into their own, and understandably their styles are duly influenced...
Arna,
I also used to think most Anime was just badly drawn cutsie characters made mostly for children until I bought Animatrix and found out that the Matrix (one of my favourite movies) was based on Anime. In the extras is an interview with the makers of the Matrix and they talk about what Anime is. It is a way of telling the story. I had no idea at the time that there are so many forms of great Anime out there for both the young and old and how popular it was. The following titles may make you change your mind about Anime:
Spirited Away
Princess Mononoke
Millenium Princess
Tokyo Godfathers
Grave of the Fireflies (bring a tissue)
Cowboy Beebop
Ghost in the Shell
I know I'm now and forever hooked.
I never knew that the Matrix was based on anime.
These are the stuff I have seen out of the movies mentioned above:
Spirited Away
Princess Mononoke
Grave of the Fireflies
Hayao Miyazaki is a great director. So is Isao Takahata (the guy who made Fireflies)
Animationfreak, I have to admit that I did enjoy 2 of the 3 films on your list that I have seen: Princess Mononoke and Tokyo Godfathers. Ok, maybe I need to be more open-minded about anime. But I can really get hung up on design, and just don't like the design of anime.
I am stupid about anime, but I have not seen any films that get away from the standard anime style. If there are some animae films that, for example, have a loose line like many of the "The New Yorker" cartoonists, or the nice textures of the Hubley films, well, then you can call me an idiot. I bet if there are any films like that they are not considered anime.
Anime seems to be more of a style than where the films are made or how the plots are told.
If a film was made in Japan, with all the story elements and techniques of anime, but it was drawn in the style of Thurber, would that still be anime? I doubt it.
Chason, I don't get how bashing a style of art is ignorant or hateful. All it shows is that it's not in line with what your personal taste is. It's impossible not to have opinions about things.
It's obvious now that my thoughts about what anime actually is is wrong, but I stand by what I've said for the particular type of anime that I was bashing. I wonder if that kind of anime has a name. I think I'll call it "teenie bopper" anime and "spikey" anime! Actually, I think I'll substitute the word "anime" with "animation" since it's the same thing, and I like the word "animation" better.
bashing it because you dont like it can be ignorant or hatefull if you understand it and dont like it then why bash simply state your possition and debate, but bashing something gets you nowhere.
Originally posted by Spoooze
Woops my mistake, influenced was probably the word I should have used. Apparently Joe Silver, the producer, and the Wachowski Brothers were big fans of Japanese anime which influenced the style of the movie, and then the birth of....the Animatrix. Anyway, I hadn't watched the Animatrix DVD in a while and so rewatched the short extra overview/history of anime - Interesting stuff by the way. Apparently when the Matrix was released in Japan, there was a lot of comments from the viewers on how the Matrix was very "anime" in style in the way the shots were presented (you'll have to watch the history to understand cause my brain (on three hours of sleep) can't come up with the Coles Notes version right now).
Arna,
I have to admit that Dragon Ball Z characters are not a style I am fond of and I am sure budget and time constraints are somewhat of a factor. But meh, my brother seems to like it and we love to tease eachother about our tastes in animation and art. Akira is another anime movie where I am amazed by the background animation (the work that went into it, my gawd!) but not so fond of the character styles - my personal taste. I'm glad you liked enjoyed Tokyo and Princess Mononoke - beautifully made weren't they. Oh, and My Neighbour Totoro (I know for kids - but it made me laugh in delight - brought me back to my childhood, it did). There's a definately a lot more great stuff out there, enjoy the journey.:D
This is off topic a bit, but in defense of the Dragonball series, the action sequences are pretty well done. Don't get me wrong, waiting something to happen is a painful experience, but who doesnt get a little giddy when the pummeling starts? Compare the action scenes to those of Batman Beyond, Justice League, etc. American action toons are awkward when it comes to, uh, action.
Back to the actual point of the thread, one cartoon that bugs me is the one where the kids are piloting mechs. I groaned out loud when I saw that. This is what happens when you have only 3 major media companies. Bandwagoning, rip offs, clones, whatever. Viva la Revolution!
I think that Totoro is more or less a movie for all ages not just for kids. That's what Miyazaki intended I think.
There's a wise saying,
"You don't judge a philosophy by its abuse."
I think the same should be applied to art forms as well. Just as they are BAD animes, they are also BAD non-animes (wherever they come from).
There's a rather recent article where a Japanese producer complained about the low quality of Japanese animation industry and how everything has been sent offshore to China and/or Korea (see the pattern here?)
Sure Miyazaki, Otomo, Oshii, Kon etc mostly seem to be beyond reproach..these are the stalwarts of quality anime. However like most things in life, true quality generally rest on the shoulder of minority.
I imagine if your first exposure to anime has been those cheap, short-cut induced series (yes that includes DragonBalls) ... then I'd advise to broaden your pallete a bit. Imagine if a foreigner who hasn't tasted any 'western' animation and accidentally bumps into *shudder* Johnny Bravo *shudder some more*...
By the way I love DragonBalls... but I'd prefer the comics, though. Probably because I finished most of the sagas before I ever encountered the animes...time wasting series, what only takes 2 pages in the comic takes them whole 1/2 hour to display on-screen! Also in retrospect I'm of personal belief that story-wise Dragonballs have declined since the introduction of the Super Saiyan-whatever idea. Bring back Goku's early days... they rock!
This is off topic a bit, but in defense of the Dragonball series, the action sequences are pretty well done.Johnny,
Funny enough, that's one point my brother and I do agree on. The action scenes are presented very well in comparison to this other show I'd be embarrassed to say I used to watch (If I could remember the name - thank God I can't). I couldn't fault my brother for teasing me on that one. Anyway, the characters were drawn pretty well, but the fighting scenes were so very very sad - too many long static fighting scenes and then one of the male characters had long green hair...enough said).
On the topic of rip-offs, I've always found it interesting that when one topic of movie comes out in the theatres (Say a movie about ghosts), there's usually one that has an almost similar plot that comes out about the same time or shortly thereafter. Great minds think alike....Or spies? :confused: Hmmmmm.
Spooze - (Entertainment) Yes,I guess sort of like Disney in that respect.
Just because anime has a different visual language than western-style animation doesn't mean it should be dismissed as cheap and "overworked". Its not what western pallettes are used to, yes, but in a lot of ways its like a different set of symbols for telling a visual story. The characters often appear "grotesque" because there is a different standard of beauty being represented. Are you saying that people with a college-level appreciation of art should dismiss an entire method of making animation because its too immature? I seem to recall Duchamp making "art" from a toilet bowl with his named signed on it.
The point is, if you approach anime from this holier-than-thou culturocentric angle, you're not going to learn anything from it, and understanding different forms of animation is vitally important to any artist that wishes to be taken seriously.
Ender
It REALLY gets me annoyed when people start bashing anime\manga like this.
Yes Miyazaki is a utterly fantastic director, but there are LOADS of talented anime directors out there. Theres just as much western animated GARBAGE out there that are constructed and produced on similar budgets from similar production house's. Kids next door, edd ed and eddy, Heavy gear, max steel, johnny quest and the like is all similar to the anime that is so commonplace nowadays.
Its your responsibilty as an animator or an artist to dig deeper and find the cool stuff thats not just on TV or widespread cinema release.
I'm only bashing the companies who are trying to copy anime just because it's a popular art form. That's was what this topic was about anyway. I'm not bashing anime it's self.
The only thing that get's me about anime is the way it's sometimes presented. Cheap animation and goofy repeats of expretions. You could see a mayor change in anime if more money and patience is put into it. Let's face it. No animation studio can compete with them since the labor is so cheap over there. With that said, why not. More the better, Keeps everyone on their toes. Certainly keeps me on mine...
Okay, I did a little searching and found the following:
Many people might say "Manga are Japanese comics, and Anime is the Japanese version of animation.
Anime is usually, but not always, the animated version of popular manga." That's partially true, but it can be misleading. (Note that "anime" in Japan technically means any animated film, and "manga" is any printed cartoon, but people in the rest of the world take them to mean animated films or comics from Japan.)
So technically speaking, Disney animation would be considered "Anime" in Japan.
And as there are many different styles of animation and artists in the Western culture, the same holds true in Japan/Asia. So there's basically both great stuff and not so great stuff from both geograpical locations.
Note: there are cultural differences in how the stories/subjects are presented. For instance in children's cartoons, death is not avoided or taboo. Anime and Manga are very popular, and, as I mentioned, there is Anime for children, teenagers and Adults, covering all kinds of subjects. My take is, it's like visiting other lands, it's good to explore and check out what the rest of the world has to offer.
I can get with both sides of this argument here. I like Miyazaki's work, it makes me weak in the knees to see such beautifully designed characters come to life. And not come to life in terms of a wavery hair cycle and shimmery eye blobs- as in running and sword-fighting, things us Americans can barely begin to fathom without the use of rotoscoping.
But there is anime that cam make me cringe and scream in anger- Dragon Ball Z is exactly that. I can't call that animation. That's a living comic book- that's all that is. And I'd rather skim through the Battle of Planet Namek in manga form rather than watch four episodes while it takes a minute to blow up. gah.
I guess what I'm getting at is that There is good and Bad anime-from an american point of view. I am sure the Japanese feel the same way about our work. I mean- I'm not seeing the Japanese embrace SpongeBob. youknowwhatimean?
this is more or less the way art was so many years ago
as being forced to study art history (most of you should be aquanted with this a little)
asian art was based on alot of perfection in some ideas they were taking classes to make perfect cirlces, many ideas of asian art tend to be used alter some but still reused in a more or less common way.
bashing of an art style shows either your ignorance or your unaccepting hatred.
The fact that americans are working using anime now isnt that hard to see why alot of people are facinated with japanies culture. not to mention many american tv stations hav started showing anime cartoons. and alot of our technology and many of the games we enjoy are developed in japan (cept my favorite HL! and HL2) well besides my fanism towards a 6 year old game i shal continue with bad grammar and spelling.
now the anime style ive always been bothered by how limited the faces were to emotion they became rather flat. and noses hmm wait they have noses? i thought that was a shadow! well of corce you can have americanized versions of anime.
ill leave that opened to interpritation