Dear friends,
just wanted to share my grief with the only people who can manage to understand what I mean.
I just came back from the school where I'm teaching animation, and my boss told me I'm suspended until the end of the semester. He said that a group of students went to the school's director and said that they weren't going to pay for the Animation class, because it was delayed and that I wasn't going until the end of the class' end time, etc.
The problem is that:
1. None of them have ever mentioned any of these "problems" to me
2. All of them were contantly late and were probably going to fail because of that
3. Most of them could barely draw at all. I'm talking about students on the fourth semester of a Design course who didn't even know how to cut a piece of paper in two.
The problem is that, no matter how bad students they were, it's THEM who pay the school, so the school gives them reason, even tho they know they're wrong.
It's the golden rule: whoever's got the gold makes the rules.
Since I don't have any, and now I'll have even less, I'm off the hook.
What makes me mad is that I always tried to be friends with the students, and now they stabbed me in the back like this, without even telling me anything. I once had an animation teacher that was a nazi tight-assed bastard and always put everybody down, and people hated him... but when I tried to be the opposite, everything fell apart.
I'd like to hear from more experienced animation teachers (i.e. all of you) if you had trouble like this, and what should I do in the next semester. I don't want to turn into the enemy, but I can't be so free and open anymore because people don't respond.
What the hell am I supposed to do?
Sorry this happenned to you Daniel. Not being an educator I can't offer any real advice, except if you ever find another position doing this make sure you don't cross these particular lines in the future.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
I think you hit the nail on the head though when you said that it's the money that is dictating what the administration is doing I think all you can do is to look at your contract and see if you have any recourse. It sounds like you are at a place where all the school wants is to push people through the system regardless of skill level but you are someone who takes being the art of animation seriously and the two aren’t going to mix very well. They want people in the seats and you want to fail the ones that don’t have a chance in hell of getting a job but that that creates empty seats and that is less money. The whole student thing can be a real or exaggerated to the point to where they now have a reason to suspend you.
But what gets me is what kind of school doesn’t have the student pay up front and how can a class not have a scheduled end date, how can a class not end on time?
Also if you are close to any of the students and you feel there is one you can trust you may want to try emailing him or her and see if they can give you an honest account of what is going on with the students of the class. Because you know how it is; it only takes one or two big mouths to bully the rest into a situation and it’s probably those big mouths that are in danger of failing.
Either way you should have the right to sit down with your boss and the accusers and hatch things out.
Best of luck.
ed
Department of Computer Animation
Ringling College of Art and Design
Sarasota Florida
Something similiar happened while I was studying Horticulture in the early eighties. Only I was one of the students that went to the Dean and complained about the instructor. In this case it was a matter of discrimination as to who got what experience in the field. With this course of study being vocational in many aspects first hand experience was important.
But instead of firing the instructor he was put on probation and all students were called upon to reevaluate his performance in four weeks. As it worked out he wasn't aware that he was doing what we as students perceived he was doing and at the end of the probationary period my evaluation was totally different than my first complaint. And his performance had improved. He learned a valuable lesson and so did the students.
We did pay up front, and as students that was one of our complaints that we had fronted the money and wanted to be assured that our educational experience would be such that we could expect to be competent in our field.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
just remember. no matter how good a teacher you are, you cannot please all of the people all of the time.
remember that there is a power relationship between teacher student. there is a very fine line between being a compassionate teacher and trying to be their friend. the later will without doubt always end in resentment.
maybe they felt they couldnt come to you with these problems 'because' you were so friendly
also, they are the paying customer, they have the resposibility to learn and benefit from your expertise, whether they make the most of this, is their perogative, but you are paid to be there and be there you must
it really isnt the students fault....painful truth that. even at the university level when staff are merely facilitators of a students learning. if they do not succeed, the teacher has failed, not them
as for next year, you have to remain approachable, but professional. the learning outcomes of the subject should always be made clear along with any expectations you have of them. think of it as a contract. as long as the student knows what is expected, the rest takes care of its self
i have to dissagree with ed gavin, i dont think a confontation(pleasant or otherwise) is the right way of approaching this. they have beef, move on. also, most schools work on a maximim bums on seats principle but that doesnt mean they cannot learn. nobody is born an animator. the more people we can introduce to the art, the more variety and the richer the animation world will be
the best thing about being a teacher is that you get better with age. you wont make the same mistakes twice, but there are a whole raft of others waiting to kick you in the ass. trust me on that.
www.EvilAsSin.com
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In many schools you pay your way into the program if you have the talent or not. Not everyone is an animator or can be, just because you are taking classes doesn't mean you are going to make it. That is why you fail people and then they choose to retake the class and learn what they should of or that can move on. If I fail someone sure I feel bad but I don't think that makes me a bad teacher, you work with what is given you and you do your best and you hope that the students has the talent and puts in the effort. Like you say “no one is born to be an animator” but at the same time not everyone can be molded into one either.
So if you were to told not to show up to work tomorrow because someone didn't like someone wouldn't you want to know who that someone was and what the problem was? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty and being able to know who you accusers are? I know this isn't a court of law but I would only think it as common decency. And maybe the student(s) do have a legitimate problem but you don’t solve anything by jumping to the administration you go to the person you have the problem with first and then if there is still an issue you move up the ladder.
ed
Department of Computer Animation
Ringling College of Art and Design
Sarasota Florida
again, i disagree, no disrespect, but i feel you should enter a class with the attitude that everybody 'can' be moulded into an animator.
i dont think a teacher should feel bad for failing a student, but it should be viewed reflectively. you should ask "why did they fail?" there is always something the teacher could have done to increase the chances of this students success, whether it is better motivational techniques or a different structure to the class
i agree with you that i would want to know who the accusers were, but there is the possibility this accuser wanted to remain anonymous, especially as the teacher had built up a good relationship with them. also there is the fear of what repercussions might follow for such a complaint. it is only natural for a teacher to take this complaint personally.
its different in industry though, then its always advisable to go to you line manager first, then further if this reaps little satisfaction.
it is my belief that everyone has something to offer the animation community. the only exception to this is a vocational animation course where they are being trained to slot into a specific role.
how do you do quotes?
v
www.EvilAsSin.com
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Just my two cents but i used to have a class where the teacher locked the door when it started and any late comers were outta luck!This was established after the 1st class where everyone was given a free pass for that day.Usually things "stay the way they start" and some students see your friendliness as a weakness to be explioted (maybe?) I do know sorry people who wont lift a finger and then near the end of the class will complain about how they didnt "really learn" anything while the rest of the class seemed to actually get something done?Sounds like you had a bit of a lazy bunch and got pinched by the few ingrates who wanted to pass the resposibilty on to who else?The instructor!Keep at em, at least you do see there is something wrong and seem willing to work to correct it, thats half the problem I think.
swankaman
Thank you all for the wise words. I guess I'll be more "professoral" next semester! Something like Lynn Belvedere maybe :D
As for the students, I like an old chinese proverb that I just made up:
[i]
"When someone criticizes you, it's a friend willing to see you improve. If someone makes a compliment and taps you in the back, it can be an enemy trying to find the best spot to stab your back."[/i]
danielpoeira.org
well, things may be resolved, but here's my 2 cents. As an art student I see 2 different kinds of teachers. there's the teacher thats the supportive easy grader, and then theres the demanding hard grader. Most art students, being told how good they are by friends and family their whole lives, take much offense to the hard ass. but, at least in my case, the hard ass is the one who teaches the most as well as instills discipline. No leaving class early, getting graded on effort, etc. etc. But, a teacher needs to be supportive also. so push em Dan, push em hard. You might want to have strict prerequisites for students to take your class as well. say 2 drawing and 2 figure drawing at least. On the subjuct of anonymous accusers, here at school we get to fill out teacher evaluations anonymously at the end of each semester, so that the teachers can be evaluted fairly by students. And, in my opinion, 18 is too early for many people to start college. a bunch of fuckin lunatics kids are at that age. :D
what a great proverb.
as long as you care about your students success, you will be a good teacher
heres a proverb of my own;
"the greatest compliment a student can pay, is to say they learnt it themselves"
www.EvilAsSin.com
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the fastest polygon in the west!
YEEEEEHHHHAAAAA!
Over the years, I've received a number of letters from students, almost exclusively at private animation programs, who have complained bitterly about spending large amounts of money for classes taught by ill equipped and under qualified teachers. They're angry and I can't say I blame them. While I do feel that people sometimes have expectations that are difficult to meet, and that you can learn alot even from a mediocre program, it seems to me that when you're talking about industry programs charging top dollar, it's fair to expect a school to have reasonable standards, facilities, equipment and teachers. That should also include teaching standards where students are expected to work hard and strive to achieve. At this level, educators shouldn't be expected to do more than a certain amount of babysitting.
Dan Sarto is Publisher and Editor-in-Chief of Animation World Network.
Personally (just my opinion), I think the fault *probably* lies mostly with the students. The vast majority of my professors were very helpful to me, and the times I had problems with them things were usually resolved when I spoke to them. I don't know why these students didn't come to you first. Usually, if you (as a student) don't get anything from a class, it's because you're being lazy. There are some exceptions to the rule, of course. Anyway.
Thanks guys for the words... yesterday I signed my [whatever they call the paper you sign when you're through with it and want the money they owe you] and I'm off the hook. Back to writing my thesis.
Funny thing is that I entered that school for the teaching position because I wanted to learn more about the process of learning animation by being on the other side. What I learned is that you shouldn't try to teach pigs to sing. You waste your time, and pester the poor animal. He won't do it, no matter how hard you try.
From now on, it's distance education for me. I feel much better giving my 2 cents on all kinds of subjects around here in the forum than teaching those lazy kids. It doesn't pay my bills, but at least I feel like I'm doing something good.
danielpoeira.org
I don't think you should give up on teaching Daniel. Somethings just come with experience.
Don't beat yourself up, but don't deny that perhaps you made a few mistakes. As a new instructor you should have had someone to consult with, if you didn't that's the institution's problem. I think you have a lot to offer, so I hope you don't totally write off the chance to teach in the future.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
I prefer the phrase: "Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in the mud. You both get dirty, and after a while you realize the pig enjoys it." I'm sure a lesson can be applied to students just as well...
--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-Driver, Wazoo Racing Subaru WRX, PGT
http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland
JP Rowland
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Hello.
Daniel, I understand your feelings. Teachers will always be in the wrong because most adminstrations won't back the Profs. Ours at SCAD is pretty good about supporting the teachers. The students are the consumers...and they know it.
That said- here are some handy tips for next term>
1. Take the roll exactly when the class is to begin and let them know you are documenting their attendance.
2. Give them a sylabus with the stated grading and attendance policies.
3. For my classes, 15 minutes late is an absence.
4. Projects are graded down one letter for each class late. Late work can not be resubmitted for a better grade.
5. If they are going to miss a class they must send me an email (this is their job and they would call in if they were out).
6. If they meet al the requirements of the given assignment - as I prescribe- that give them a "C". Better is a "B". Excellent (approaching pro work) an "A".
Finally, I tell them if they just want a good grade - take someone's class. If they want to learn than great...I will help them anyway I can.
Sounds harsh- but it works. And you know what, the really good students appreciate it when their "A" means something.
Bottomline- start off tough - then you can nuture them later. Also, no one who has me for the first time can call me by my first name...that comes later when they have earned it.
Most students are great- some will play the system.
Thanks.
Larry
web site
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Thanks Larry! I don't know if I'll be back in the next semester. Maybe I'll drop out and concentrate on writing my master's thesis. The school I was teaching at is not that good, I don't think I'll profit much from it besides the money, and it wasn't that good...
But I'll keep a note of your tips, I think I should have been like this since the beginning. I always knew I had to do it, but I just couldn't.
Do you guys know a TV show called "Faking It"? Where they get people who do something and turn them into something different in only 1 month? There was this guy once, who used to work on a burger joint, and they put him to be a chef de cuisine... he did alright with the food and all, but he just couldn't manage to give orders! He was so ""nice"" to his team that they constantly screwed up. I think I must learn from him.
What would Stanley Kubrick's films look like if he was "nice" and tried to please everybody?
danielpoeira.org
i like the rare third type of teacher, the one that pushes and pushes and pushes and then when it comes to the end of the semester they give you a good grade for working your arse off under their pressure....you spend the semester scared/stressed outta your mind but the results are the best for everyone.
:D :p
As a teacher I find I need to be a little bit of each one of those types of teachers. Different students respond to different things; some want or need to be on a tight leash while others will only dig in deeper with that approach so you have to be flexible. I just expect my students to work as hard as I do during a semester, if you are working I'm happy and I'll do whatever it takes to make you a better animator. If you are being lazy and willing to settle for "good enough" I will grade accordingly.
ed
Department of Computer Animation
Ringling College of Art and Design
Sarasota Florida
Hey this is my first post in about a month.So I felt like making it a LONG ONE New Job takes all of my time sorry! Anyways I just wanted to say a little something from a students point of view. I know just how upsetting it can be to pay a lot of money to take a class and then get stuck with a new teacher, an old teacher, or a foriegn teacher.
The new ones always are one of the extremes, too nice or too strict. They either are a push over and don't challenge you or they overload you with work and expect unreasonable amounts of time and dedication thinking their class is the only one that matters.
Now the old teachers can either be a blessing or a curse. It is great when you find a veteren teacher who knows every detail about what he or she is teaching and knows the best ways to transfer the knowledge even when you bitch and moan at the time, you look back and realize you actually learned it and you feel like you accomplished something. On the other hand there are some that are out of touch and could care less about what the students get out of the class. These guys are way past their prime and are mostly burnt out. They resort to "group project presentations" where the students basically teach each other the chapters of a book through presentations while the teacher nods off in the corner.
The worst of all are the foriegn teachers in the math department:D You can't understand anything that they are saying! They are used to working so much harder then Americans. Are we really a nation of slackers or are they letting life pass then by while their face is down in a book? I don't know, but damn it I earned that B+ in Business Calculus and I am proud of it!!!
Most of all at the college level as a student you get what you work for, not what you pay for. Anyone can learn about a subject by purchaing a textbook and going cover to cover, but everyone learns in different ways. That is why teachers are here to show you the way, but you must choose to accept the challenge and do the work. No one can make you do it or do it for you.
A lot of students tend to think that the teacher will give them the things they need to pass the next test and then they could care less as long as they eventually graduate.This pisses me off when students walk out of class and show up for the test a month later and then complain after they didn't do well because not everything from the test was in the book or handouts. They are the ones who give the teachers poor evaluations and complain the most at the end of the semester. Compare their grade to the ones of the people who come every day and work hard. They don't complain at the end.
Throughout my life I can look back at all the "mean" teachers I had in elementry school, middle school, highschool, and college and I realize that I always learned more and I was more interested in what they had to say then any of the "nice" teachers.
1. Real life stories and examples are a must for good teachers. Share funny moments in your career, inspirational ones, even the set backs and horrible jobs. Prepare students for what is really out there.
2. Treat your students like adults. We are not children anymore, and even children pay more attention when you make them feel like you respect them like an adult. (I know this from many summer camps I ran)Good students will want to learn, others will barely make the grade and that is their own fault.
3. We are capabale of more then you may think or even more then we think we are. Expect that we can take on challenging assignments, but make them interesting if possible. Now this is not saying that you should expect us to know how to do what you are teaching. But given the right setup students can exceed your expectations.
4. Don't give in to whiners, slackers, or the majority of the class. If 10% of your class can do what you expect then it is not only possible, but it should be expected. Mob mentatlity in a class can be started by one unhappy slacker. It is his fault not yours.I would reccommend making assignments just a notch above reasonable. That way the students will either rise to the challenge or drown.
5. Get feedback from your students especially the ones with the high grades. They will let you know if they are struggling to get assignments done. Have them give you in-class evaluations and suggestions that won't be seen by the administration. They can be anonymous if you want truthful answers.
6. Always maintain your position of power. You can be friendly and even nice, but never cross the line where you relenquish your total dominance of the class. Sure you can take it a little easy and give them a little space, but never be afraid to yank the leash back. You are in control and students expect that. Once that image of the all knowing all powerful professor is shattered you will never be able to put it back together in their mind.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to us." ---Gandalf
Daniel,
Thanks for sharing your pain during this nasty "Et Tu, Brute" incident; and incidentally, opening up a great topic for discussion. Greatly needed!
Most of us have likely been through a variation of this at less than ideal teaching venues.
If you're primarily a production-oriented person, not primarily a theoretical academician, it's not only upsetting but mistifying; often we cannot even fathom what the politics, games and angst have to do with the teaching of the art of animation.
The good news: it has all to do with faulty educational systems and faculty/student motives/reactions; nothing to do with animation.
The bad news: politics, games, angst are involved wherever humans gather for a common purpose it seems, including production of animation--especially large production of thousands of hours of animation entertainment involving huge crews.
You've done the right thing: temporarily withdraw from an ugly, impossible scenario; take some time out, regroup, reflect as to your main priorities, get in touch with the inner creative Muse; cleanse your soul from the recent 'sliming', the back from the stab wounds.
When the 'desire to inspire' resurfaces, keep your eyes and ears open for any enlightened teaching venues where a better atmosphere and attitude prevails. They'll welcome you with open arms as they're the ones looking for bona fide, dedicated animation pros to actually teach the subject to interested students with inquiring minds.
'Beard stroking' over 40 years of production and teaching, it seems this is somewhat of a cyclical process in maintaining inspiration, love of the medium, self-respect and mental health. There's much to be said for 'sticking with a bad situation, seeing it through', provided one can maintain physical, mental, spiritual, creative health. If any of those are in jeopardy it's often wiser to regroup to fight another day...wisdom being the better part of valor etc. Or..."Amongst fools 'tis folly to be wise".
As Larry says above, there will always be those who are merely there to exploit a system, be it shady, exploitive schools, fraudulent instructors or boondoggling students. Happily they're the minority, but they wreak havoc disproportionate to their number.
In those situations, teaching is pure hell to any dedicated production professional; that scene can only appeal to those eager to play that game, sharing the scam.
On the other hand, teaching is pure joy, despite the scam angst, if sincere teachers and earnest students manage to find a meeting ground where knowledge, skill and inspiration can be transferred successfully--where producing entertaining animation is the shared, uppermost goal.
Don't allow this recent, unjust experience to sour your love of the medium. It has nothing to do with animation itself or your value and ability as teacher/mentor/instructor/animator.
From your description it matches the 'hell' scenario--where the instructor is mistakenly trying to teach animation know-how and skills in a setting where the main thought of everyone else is filling seats, bank balances and boondoggling loans in order to stay out of the winter weather--or otherwise avoid the demands of real life.
Instructor: "Huh? I thought this was about teaching/learning animation??".
School admin., faculty and students: "Duhhhhh....Not!"
Instructor: "Ooops. I'M ON THE WRONG BUS ! I'M OUTTA HEAH!"
Re: Johnny Lethargic's posting about 'f***** lunatic teenagers". In case any geezers have forgotten, we were all there once. Among most teens, there exists an inner formulating core person with the POTENTIAL of eventually emerging as a sane, intelligent, creative, responsible adult.
At it's best, teaching is helping students actualize themselves into productive personhood. Then it's more than mere teaching or filling in attendance sheets, it's world building with awesome possibilities.
Some helpful and informative links:
For more on educational theories, check out Abraham Maslow's work:
http://www.newfoundations.com/GALLERY/Maslow.html
or anything by Carl Rogers on 'Attaining Personhood'.
While we're at it: grab a glance at anything by Viktor Frankl, ("The Will To Meaning" etc.) concentration camp survivor/psychiatrist who found "It isn't what happens to us, it's our ATTITUDE to what happens to us. It's the final freedom of choice nobody can take from us."
An interesting website re: inside the teenage brain is at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/
No doubt they've made some interesting findings re: the other ages of the human brain also.
Anyway, chalk this one up to experience Daniel, and in the words of that old corny song:
All the best,
'Uncle' Norm
# 197,583 of 'Uncle Norm's Discside Animation Chats', (c) 2004
Many thanks, Hett15, for the insightful feedback re: instructors/students.
Most instructors will welcome such constructive feedback!
At risk of becoming known on here as the old song quotster, in the words of the 50's "King and I" musical (Deborah Kerr & Yul Brynner version), in the song "Getting to Know You".....
It's a very ancient saying,
But a true and honest thought,
That if you become a teacher,
By your pupils you'll be taught.
Corny, cute and in many ways very true. :)
Thanks again.
I read Viktor Frankl when I was fifteen, and it left a lasting impression. And like Hett said:
"We are not children anymore, and even children pay more attention when you make them feel like you respect them like an adult."
I am way far away from fifteen now, but you know what...when I was that age I responded to those that treated me as a viable human being more than I did those that thought of me as a child.
Hang in there Daniel and keep your doors open!
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Yes. Buy a pipe and a tweed jacket with the elbow patches.
I have to disagree with this statement. Not everyone has what it takes to be successfully "moulded into an animator". Thinking back to my animation schooling, there were numerous people there who just simply could not draw to save their lives. How they were accepted into a portfolio based programme is beyond me (maybe they traced their entire portfolios?), but they did get in. In a country like Brazil, where Daniel is writing from, students get in, if they can pay for it. I would imagine there is very little selection process except, "you got money? You're in".
Artistic ability is something you either have or you don't have. You are born with it; It is not learned. Even then, even if you CAN draw, and ARE a good artist, can you animate?! Can you portray LIFE through your drawings, and make nice movement and acting? Again, not everyone is born with that ability.
Sorry, I know this was posted a while back, but having just stumbled upon this thread, I felt the need to inform myself from the beginning, and came across this statement, so I wanted to put my two cents in regarding it in particular.
Daniel, I hate to say it, mate, but even if many of the students were late regularily, etc., you should still have been there, at the school, on time, every day. There surely would have been a couple students there, wanting to learn. Too bad for the ones who came late and still expected help from you on something you had explained while they SHOULD HAVE been there. You tell them to get to class on time and their questions would probably have been answered, but since you missed it, then you figure it out. The school was paying you to be there, so that is just what you should have done (been there, earning your pay check). The fact that the students could barely draw as well is really out of your hands, and not really for you to judge (publically, I mean... You can always have your own personal opinions, as we all do). You really needed to work with what you had (as THE STUDENTS were really paying your paycheck), and see if you could help them to get better, rather than giving up on them all. If they cannot be helped to get better artistically, then teach them how to make their poor drawings move. They are paying for it.
I am sorry to play devil's advocate in this, as I like you and all, and feel for you being canned, but I have to look at the situation objectively. I just hope that a lesson has been learned from it, and mistakes won't be repeated in the future.
Good luck with your book, mate, and keep your head up.
Wade
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
when i was studying art 4 years in my highschool, my teacher faced the same idea, where some students didbn't came to class..etc (but didn't get him suspended or any compaint was planned) but he just didn't took it hard, in fact, he didn't care :D
me and him had really cool bond where we talked about art, getting help from him, and doing anything i want (also others) in that class.
all students did the final test anyhow, and it was really cool.
the teacher just probably though to him self 'hell, i am being paid to sit in a class and doing nothing' hheheh but he was a great teacher, he has his studio..etc which is cool.
Visit my site http://www.animdesk.com
Hi Wade, thanks for replying... I think I missed some points on my explanation of the whole situation that happened to me, and I hope to clear things a little bit more:
That is exactly my whole point. I've always been!
I was also on the 'Tripplets de Belleville' session I told the students to attend to, and none of them showed up.
I also created a website that none of them used, which featured the videos of the exercises they never downloaded and PDF files they never read.
And I've set up a discussion group, and no one wrote anything on it.
I also invited the students to come to my studio and know it, but they never came.
I always did everything I was supposed to, and even more than that. But they didn't care, they lied anyway and got rid of me just to have some discount or something. I hated waking up every friday in the morning knowing that I was going to share my knowledge with people who realy didn't care about it. Now I'm free. I'm even poorer, but I'm free.
I found it rather shocking that fourth-semester students of Graphical Design couldn't draw at all. It only proved that they were not paying to learn, but merely to get a diploma or something. The whole school's system was rotten like that.
I swear I tried my best, I only gave up when they stabbed me in the back. None of them never mentioned any problems with me--specially AFTER.
By the way, did I tell you guys know what material I had to teach "computer animation technique"?
24 portable wooden animation disks with defective eletric systems
1 15" TV
1 VCR
1 Pentium II with Windows 2000, Adobe Photoshop 6 and Adobe Premiére 5
1 Serial port scanner, with no pegs on it, and slower than a slug
Fun, isn't it?? :D
Hope I left some points clearer... Thanks anyway!
danielpoeira.org
Oh well, Dan. We have all had some jobs in our time that left a bad taste in our mouths, our fault or not. Just chalk it up as a learning experience and move on. Next time you teach, you will understand why your teacher was such a Nazi... Hehehehe.
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
hoe did they expect you to teach computer animation with no computers?
www.EvilAsSin.com
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the fastest polygon in the west!
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Hey.. i'm an student.. and you know what?? all my life i've looked at my teachers as my teachers.. i've always respected them..
but to be honest.. i would never respect a teacher like you.. i'm sorry to say this.. but the tone of your message is not very friendly.. students are idiots.. hard to handle.. yes i know that.. i'm one.. but teachers should always keep calm and keep things in control.. obviously you are doing something wrong for the skool to suspend you..
you can't clap with one hand my friend.. i'm sure there are two sides to this story.
i am sorry this had happened to you.. but i don't think you talk about your students as they can't draw or they were going to fail anyways..
i wouldn't want to pay the skool if i had teachers like that.. you talk about how you had a teacher who was a NAZI BASTARD..
as a person you can say that.. but as a teacher you can't... you are suppose to be an example to us students.. and here you are talking crap about your OWN KIND(teachers)
you'll probably be mad at this post cause it's coming from a student.. but i recomend you get a mirror and take a look at yourself and teach yourself before you teach other.
I apolozize if i have offended you.. but had to make a comment based on your first post in this topic
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Evandaeman, I think you meant in the heading the "students" were right. So you too can make mistakes. Daniel knows he made mistakes. I think this was his first teaching gig. The Nazi comment is questionable, but he was discussing his situation here at AWN where's he's been for quite a while so I think he felt comfortable to make that comment in context to where he was posting.
Hopefully if he teaches again, he'll be a little more distant and demanding for his own sake.
I'd like to add Evandaeman I think you better take a good look at your own performance and wait, stop and give yourself a little time before you judge others. It can come back and bite you.
Pat
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
i think evandeamon has made an informed and fair comment....as he is a student, he is very qualified to comment this way
i see no reason for his comments to come back and bite him
but
i see peoples egos/feelings getting hurt in this thread
move on people
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YEEEEEHHHHAAAAA!
All I was trying to say, to evandeamon is make sure before you judge someone else you make sure your house is in order. As someone that is graduating soon
He's venturing out into the real world of dog eat dog and competition. Before you bite a hand you better know where your next meal is coming from.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
hi daniel,
i hope the next semester will be alright for you!! .
it's really a bummer to see you suspended because of some kids who can't respect thier teacher and the efforts you try to bring into that class.
i hope it will turn out alright in the end.
from what i'v read, you said they can't draw.
well, in that matter, doesn't the school has a special 'art test' capability of students before they will be applying to the school?
or it's 'just pay, we're don't care 'bout your talent' school attitude?
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well packer.. yes maybe i am wrong.. or said things in the wrong tone.. yea i can understand where you are coming from..
but i was giving a student's point of view.. students make mistakes ALL the time.. just like i did now..
but that's why we look upto teachers and learn how not to judge others and not to hate..
if the teachers are complaining about student.. if the teachers are getting disgusted with the students.. where are we suppose to go???
yea i don't know him in real life.. and i said.. it'd be okay if the comment was coming from him being a general person.. but when the comment comes from him being a teacher.. it changes my view on things..
oh well.. i just think the admin is not going to suspend a teacher for nothing.. it doesn't make sense.. if that is true.. i hope he leaves that college and moves on.. cause then it sounds like the college admins are into politics.. :rolleyes:
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again.. i'm sorry if i sound disrespectful.. i just wanted to share my view..
i apolozize if i have gone too far:o
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You won't believe this. In the first class of the semester (actually the second, in the first one only 2 students appeared) one of the girls said in my face that she had paid someone to make her final drawing works on the last semester.
In the class after this one, I asked them to cut some paper to make flip books. Most students didn't know how to cut paper using a ruler and a paper-knife.
These were fourth-grade graphical design students. Who couldn't draw. Or cut paper.
The only kid I remember who could really draw was the only one who went to class in the day the students went to talk to the director. He stood there with me all class long, and we made a lot of work together. He didn't seem to know about the other student's plan.
It made me wonder... ;)
danielpoeira.org
I'm sorry if I ever sounded like I thought all students are stupid. That's obviously not what I think. I'm a student too, always have been and always will be.
The students I criticizes on my original post were the ones who I was teaching to in the beginning of this semester. I feel that they stabbed me in the back, pretending to me that everything was fine and then complaining to the director of the school--asking him for a discount. I do not accept that kind of behavior on anyone, be it students or not. I think it was a coward unprofessional move.
But I don't care anymore, really. The school was not that good, and I have a lot of other things to do. New projects arrived, and my teaching plans will have to wait.
Maybe I'll go back to the function when I find a group of students who actually want to learn animation. Until there, I'll keep my student work.
As far as I'm concerned, a teacher is a student--twice.
danielpoeira.org
Hey Daniel,
Ehk...that's gotta be a sore spot for you. It sounds to me like you really cared about these kids too, because you're taking it so much to heart.
I've been an educator as well. My first struggle with the educational institution were the professors. The "clique" that calls the shots, and know exactly how to take the magic out of learning.
It sounds to me, like you weren't the one who turned your students off..it's the school. Just by the way you're affected by this, I can see that you walked into this position, not only with the desire to teach, but inspire as well. I personally wouldn't change your methods..I'd change the institution if possible.
And don't be dissolusioned about the drawing skills of the students. Drawing is a skill that very few find a gift in. But after a few months of thinking "my god, how did this kid get accepted into this program not knowing how to draw at all"...I realized the many different gifts that these kids had aside. And those talents are getting these kids some neat jobs in the industry now. Sometimes it's imagination...sometimes it's good storytelling, sometimes it's good rhythm, sometimes it's technical savvy. Sometimes there' nothing there, but they work hard at it because of their passion, and end up very good in the end.
Just remember why you decided to teach. If you honestly took the job for money, but didn't feel you had an affinity to grab and intrigue your students, then face the music my friend. It's not easy. But if you came in with hardcore passion, and you wanted to see that in their faces, sometimes it just takes the right combination of persistance, knowledge, and support from your institution. If you aren't clear on your goal, then your students will see and feel it too. The first thing that students do, is judge your personality. If they like you, then they'll be more intent on listening. and not dropping out of the course. But sometimes, the school sucks, and there ain't no amount of pep-talking you can do.
Think of it as a veeeery long job interview, with a chance of making friends out of it eventually.
Adam
okay daniel.. i hope your projects work out for you :D
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Evan: no prob, it's easy to miss the spot in a forum like this, where we don't know anyone for real and have to deal with words... No hard feelings!
Adam: thanks for the input, I totally agree with you. After all, the kids weren't passionate about anything I could spot, and the school was not good either. I'm focusing in my book now, I think it will reach more people who really care about our favorite subject :)
danielpoeira.org
Moving forward, it might be helpful to establish clearer communication channels with your students. Encourage open dialogue and feedback sessions where students feel comfortable expressing their concerns directly to you. Additionally, setting clear expectations and boundaries from the outset of the semester can help mitigate misunderstandings and prevent similar situations from arising in the future.