I swear, i'm the only person on the planet that genuinly likes this show. I notice a lot of professional animators refer to it as "bastardized", like that's a bad thing. Personally, i feel TTs is a nice amalgamation of eastern and western styles and i also think this is the direction most animation is headed in the future. Now granted, the superdeforming thing they do is a little annoying, but for the most part, i find that the show is pretty funny.
as far as the animation, i don't think it's too bad either, i mean they use more frames than any anime i've ever scene and they don't do that flapping mouth thing i see in a lot of anime.
storywise, it's a kids show, so there's not much depth, but i don't really think it's meant to be deep. It's supposed to be something fun to wake up and watch on saturday morning.
i'll admit, the first time i saw this show, i thought the whole "anime-style thing" was a gimmick, but after watching almost every episode, i feel it's a really great show that's really fun to watch. It has that ninja turtles feel to it, at least to me.
but everybody else seems to hate this show with a passion, i mean is it really that bad? :confused:
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
That's a Terran thing. And I'd change absorbs to receives. If the U.S. had a problem it would be opening ourselves to the 'stuff' and seeking it out for cultural enrichment instead of not paying attention and dealing with it as it comes, which it will.
I was shocked when I heard that one of my favorite Japanese bands "Puffy" ("パフィー" for those who want to know) was brought on to do the "Teen Titans Theme Song". They were or are one of the biggest bands in Japan, and they're desprerately trying to make it in the U.S. Of course they're milking the "Teen Titans" thing to the end of the udder. It's a great song for a theme, but sitting down and rocking to it doesn't really seem to work. I suppose this was just one more way the producers were trying to capitalize on the supposed "Japan-ness" of the show.
Also, I think the anime thing in western animation will eventually burn out. It will always be there to some degree, but anime in itself has limitations that many will not want to permanently work in. Once people stop buying it, or the next big thing comes along, it will fade to the background. Of course masters like Miyazaki will hopefully continue to take the genre forward in Japan.
As opposed to the good varieties of bastardization?
acetate assassin,
My seven year old cousin loves the show and playing the TT video games on Cartoon Network.
Here's my problem with Teen Titans - you've already touched on it, but I wanted to expand on it, at least from my perspective.
The anime influence is obvious, but it's effect is watered down by the western aspects of the show. As a result you end up with a show that's neither. It's attempt at the anime aspects are heavy-handed, and end up not working because of it. So we're left with a show that's neither fish nor fowl.
We already have anime - we know what that's about. TT feels like an attempt to "innovate" in western entertainment by apeing a style that's already being done much better by the folks that originated that style. In doing this, they achieve neither the innovation they attempt nor the homage they intend.
I think it is a fine show story and characterwise...But I wouldn't say it is influenced, rather it imititates poorly Japanese animation as a means of marketing on the heels of Japanese imports that were successful. Its animation comes of stilted and awkward, misunderstanding what real anime is. There's alot of overused and misused Anime cartoon cliches, thinking that is what will make it anime and I agree with DSB, it comes as off this ambiguous thing with those little cliches jarring me (taking me out of the story) from an otherwise good show.
Gotta say though, cool opening and garage-band theme song.
My biggest problem with the Teen Titans is one that actually stems from the treatment of the source material, and not the Jap-erican animation stuff. Now, I realize this makes me an old fogey, but I kinda grew up on the original comic run of New Teen Titans created by Marv Wolfman and George Perez. At the time, there were literally 2 books topping the charts in comic-dom.. Titans and Xmen... And the stories rocked! They hold up even today, with a crew of characters that more often referred to each other by their given names than codenames, each story, no matter how wierd or wild, still had an element of heart that I frankly don't see in too many comics today. The irony was that even though there was the word "Teen" in the title, storywise, they tended to reflect a lot more maturity than their so-called adult counterparts. Now, I realize some of this may be coming from a rose-coloured-glasses interpretation of my youth. I honestly think if you actually used the original storylines, complete with some of the heavier, darker tones (For instance Cyborg's difficulties adjusting to looking like a half robot, for instance, or Starfires's tragic past) you'd not just hook kids with style and flash, but addict them to the SUBSTANCE as well.
That being said, I do like the fact that they have Robin portrayed as a little obsessive when it comes to dealing with their arch nemisis... this at least does echo the comic from way back when...
Heh.. shows ya where my priorities are when I waste 10 minutes blabbing about this instead of curing cancer, huh?..
Riff
Cancer's waited this long -- what's ten minutes?
Your tone is actually unbiased, don't worry about that. I've only seen couple-minute chunks here and there of the show, but it might please you to know they did deal with Cyborg's issues with his appearance in at least one episode. Like I said I didn't see the whole thing, but it came across like a sorcerer of some kind was able to take hold of his will and use his as an enemy against the rest of them by promising/rewarding him with a completely human appearance...
I,for one,do not hate "TT".I accept it f'what it is.I haven't caught
all the eps,tho,nor will I ever intend to have.I dug the "Terra"
thing,and the ep where Cyborg is balling (doing his thing) in
another dimension. The Beast Boy faith crisis ep caused some
serious thought. Tell you what I hated,though:those eps pitting
Cyborg against Brother Blood.Those were,to me,needlessly
bloodpressureraising/over the top.Yuk.
I like Beastboy and Raven...
"Animation isn't about how well you draw, but how much to believe." -Glen Keane
I agree that they take the anime influence too far, and I definately think it hurts the show. I feel like they over use the anime cliches to try and compensate for poor writers. But the show still manages to make me laugh. (like the scene in the brotherblood ep where beastboy kissing his own butt)
Another thing I think hurt this show is that a lot of people were expecting it to be a another mini version of justice league, which it's definately not. I don't think it's fair to compare a show like justice league which is targeted toward a more mature audience, to a show like teen titans.
i guess all i'm saying is the show may have it's faults, but i don't think that they make the show completely unwatchable.
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
In all honesty, i'm getting a little sick of all these western cartoons trying to adopt the anime style. Anime is strictly made in japan, period! The japanese created the genre and the drawing style much like the western style was created by those in america. An american show trying to be anything more than american seems a little short sighted to me. If they want to create something original, completly ripping ofF the style isn't the way to do it. Western writers and animators dont have that japanese way of doing things, purely for the reason they haven't done their homework and have probably seen only a handful of anime, mostly the kids stuff like pokemon, and dragonball, yugi etc. They need to see loads before they get what makes good anime. Keep anime with japan thats what i say. Try something new and original.
Andy
www.seasonsmanga.com
I agree that apeing the anime style shows little originality, but I disagree that the creators have only seen a "handful" of anime. The folks responsible for this (and other) shows that borrow heavily from anime are most likely big fans of the genre. Why else would one invest that kind of time and effort, except to make a contribution (however misguided) to the genre? That the execution is lacking doesn't necessarily mean that their reference points are few.
Let me ask you guys this, if Glen Murakami produced teen titans in japan, would that make it a better show?
imo, the answer is no. It'd just be a slide show with more moving holds and stills with flapping mouths layered on top. I think that "western" touch of animation helps this show, even if it's execution isn't perfect.
(In my first post i used the word bastardized and i think the word i was looking for was hybrid)
a while ago, Larry L. posted a "i don't get anime" thread where he talked about seeing more acting with characters by using more frames and such, and i think this show is close to what he was talking about
also, i think we have to keep the target audience in mind here. If they used anime like yugioh and pokemon as refference or what ever, it because those shows are specifically marketed toward a younger audience that's not going to care about the lack of animation. I can't see the creators using something like, samurai champloo for example, as a refference when that show is clearly targed toward a more mature audience. I can't stand pokemon but my 6 year old cusin likes it just as much as he likes teen titans.
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
Any show filled with smug, cocky teenage characters is a little annoying to me, whether it's Teen Titans or Ninja Turtles or [i]Saved by the Bell.
[/i]I wouldn't say I hate it though. It's just not for me.
*cancels plans to pitch Saved by the Smug Cocky Ninja Titeens*
The "Teen Titans" is actually older than I am, the comic book has a long history, and the show may actually be staying true to the original (one of the originals) as it has 5 of 6 of the same characters I saw shown.
In what sense - the writing? I was intrigued by the comment because I never knew it was a comic...Googled and
- up in the air whether it's a visual lift...
thats brilliant i had a good laugh to myself when i read those.nice one ScatteredLogical
http://www.koolpages.com/wonderland/titans/ttv1/
The Teen Titans is actually a super-old comic book that started out as a superhero version of Muppet Babies, with teenage versions of some of the most popular adult heros.
Batman > Robin
Wonder Woman > Wonder Girl
Green Arrow > Speedy
Flash > Kid Flash
Aquaman > Aqualad
I like the show. But what I don't like is when I hear people say "TT is my favorite anime!"
Its not an anime, and even if it was, its not even close to being the best.
"Favorite" and "best" are two different things.
"Hudson Hawk" is one of my favorite movies, but it's not even remotely close to the best movie ever.
Acetate, are you asking why some don't like the show or trying to convice us to like it? If the former, plenty of reasons that have already been posted. If it's the latter, you've got a tough job ahead.
They got it design-wise but I do feel the cliches are gratuitous in many places.
I've yet to see a Japanese style animation preproduced by non-Japanese that totally fools me. I'm certain the artists have an appreciation for anime and can certainly draw.
The Titans have been on TV before--the old Filmation Aquaman series had the Teen Titans as a recurring guest-starring series-within-the series.
Alot of the visual cliches used to make the current series "anime" are just that---cliches. I find it a pity they have to resort to cliches to make it identifiable as being in that style--I'd much rather see it be its own animal that have to ape some..........and ape it badly.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
i agree with you ken. The show would probably hold up better if it was trying to be something less than japanese anime. Plenty of american cartoons are still so great, using a design more true to western animation. I prefer my western cartoons western and my anime from japan. End of story for me!!
Andy
www.seasonsmanga.com
yeah, I'm a big fan of both the original and remake of the comicbook, as well as Young Justice. I just wish the cartoon stayed truer to the comics.
My intention with posting this wasn't to convert everybody into avid titans fans, I was trying to understand why nobody even seemed willing to give this show a chance at all. I really like the show, so I just felt like I had to stick up for it a little. It just seems everybody harshly judges this show based solely on the visual style. It is cool to see that some people actually enjoy the show because i catch a lot of flack from some of my classmates for saying it's a decent show.
But I do see where you guys are coming from. It's more of an issue of americans producing anime style cartoons that aren't "authentic" anime.
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
Actually, I'm still trying to figure out what about that show is supposed to be so particularly 'anime' other than the producers' intentions of making it seem anime. OK, the characters are kids with superpowers and have big eyes. I don't see where that is an anime-exclusive criterium. In fact, the style reminds me of an admittedly over-the-top cross between Batman: The Animated Series and WB's Superman more than of any anime style I've ever seen. Just look at the backgrounds and how angular many characters' features are. Even the stories are the essence of the fluff one would expect from an American superhero show for kids.
To my mind, the only thing that was really copied from anime shows (and I feel this is where Teen Titans really gets awkward) is the use of symbols to express emotions and moods rather than modelled facial expressions. Giant sweat drops, simplified and distorted features, abstract gestures, etc. Quite frankly, the show could do without all that just to have an excuse for calling itself 'anime'-inspired.
As soon as WB tries to bring wild and spiky hairdos, giant mechs, skimpily clad goddesses, repetitive transformation sequences, collectible card games and cute critters beating the crap out of each other into their shows, we really have something to be worried about. Somebody tell their market researchers that sometimes monkey sees, but monkey can't do.
That was almost a really good subversive Dragonball reference.
Ever seen an episode of WB's Xiaolin Showdown? Just ten minutes should be enough to send anyone writhing and squirming in agony.
I like TT
Having said that, I must admit there are many other cartoons I would rather see, but I can watch the show and enjoy it. I guess what I like the most is what has most of you horrified: The marriage of east and west. Well, I'm from the south, so I see things from a different perspective. First of all, and I hope I'm not offending anyone, the US is a sponge that absorbs constantly stuff from abroad. True, It's usually been Europe or Soth America, so they seem home made, because our reality is not so alien.
So it was only a matter of time for the contact to happen. Of course, the japanese had already been influenced by the western style... and now vice versa.
I guess americans don't notice very well the fenomenon of globalization. But it happens, and you can notice it best in the media. Thanks to Hollywood movies I know about 911, but don't know the police number in my own country. But as other countries absorb more of the american way, their own ways become less alien to America, and the process backfires.
Maybe TT is not the best way to blend anime and western style, but it's a try, it's a small step for a man , but a... Where was I?
You will see more of those marriages in the future... by the way, what about the Matrix? Yeah, its a Motion, but it's so anime... actually it's like an introductory course to japanese style: Part one is almost 100% western, apart from a little Kung Fu (Chinese) and then travels east until it ends in part 3 with a scene borrowed from Dragon Ball Z (Neo fights Smith) and in a very japanese style you get a philosophical dissertation and the good guys die.