Do BFA degrees really matter?

I got a good art education. Not the best. But good, and I got a Bachelor's degree in four years. If I had to do it again, and my parents weren't footing the bill, I wouldn't take classes just to fill the BA requirements. I would've taken more drawing classes, even repeate them with different instructors. I would've taken classes because they had the best instructors instead of because it fit into the timeline of my schedual. They created new basic animation classes my senior year. I didn't have to take them because they weren't required when I had started the program. I would've stayed to take those. I would've given myself the best education I could, instead of taking classes like english 101 so I could get my BA.

Would I now be animating at PIXAR or Disney or ILM or WETA? who knows. But I wouldn't have any regrets about the education I got. And I could always go back and take that english or symbolizim class to get my degree.

It's a fine line and it's not a perfect world, but don't let getting a degree blind you from getting the best education. If that means staying an extra semester or so, so you can take an awesome class, I'd say it's worth it. So your student loan bill will be higher. Whats another year on top of the 20 years you'll be paying it back for anyway? :D

Aloha,
the Ape

Hello.

I agree with Ken...and I teach...

IF you want a degree- a BFA fine- but it SHOULD be with the idea of improving your drawing and animation skills. I see way too many kids who come to school just for software training.

No one really cares what school you go to or went to...if they don't see it on the reel then- it does not exist.

I cringed a few days ago when I heard a student say, "Well, after I graduate with my BFA, I am going to try the job market for 6 months and then if that doesn't work out - I am coming back for my Masters so I can teach...".

Tell me it ain't true...I could not believe my ears....

You can go to a software school to learn software...go to an art school to learn art.

When I am looking for help- IF I like the portfolio...THEN I look at the demo reel....

Thanks.:cool:

I see way too many kids who come to school just for software training.

And those are generally the ones who end up not finding jobs because their reels reflect their lack of animation skill, and end up complaining about the education that they got. But I digress...

In a job listing (which are written by HR departments), the degree requirement is usually thrown in automatically. Job listings are written in an attempt to weed out people who look at them, see they don't have the education/experience that's listed, and move on without applying, making life easier for HR. I've landed jobs where I didn't fit the qualifications listed in the job description, and I've been turned away from jobs where I met it perfectly. In the end, it's a crapshoot, and those that persist will generally land something eventually.

BTW, I do have a Bachelor's degree, it has absolutely nothing to do with animation, and I've worked professionally in this field for over 15 years.

Hello...

In my last post I meant to say..

When I need help...I look at the portfolio first...if I like what I see then I look at the DEMO reel....(I went back nd corrected it).

Thanks.

When you look for work- find out as much as you can about the company. Try to see where you fit in or how you can fulfill a need...do tons of research....the more info you know the better.

Thanks again.

I am in the BFA at the AI in seattle.

the BFA program has a lot more classes to help you make better work and get more in depth on particular aspects.

I am glad i switched into the BFA rather than continuing with just the AA

I'd like to clarify, maybe a BFA doesn't matter in the realm of professional animation, but if you are trying to survive out there in real life, and you have the opportunity to get one, I say get one, it can't hurt and you can always build on it.

I've come to terms and realized I do want to continue with school. I wish I didn't take all my Gen. Eds in the beginning, I would have saved a bunch of money. I've decided to just take classes I want to take and begin working up my demo real. I prefer teaching myself so there is nobody else to blame as being a bad teacher but I also need to sit in a studio and learn how it all works.

I enjoyed reading your opinions. I will admit a lot of the art students are lazy! They will skip classes to sit in the empy rooms and play video games and it's the same people over and over. It is also those same people complaining about everything and I don't want to work with those type of people. If I go for the masters and work my way up in a company to higher positions, I can work with reliable people unlike those who wait for the job to come to them. I had my first interview with an engineering agency for a CAD position at the age of 16, so I started young when it came to finding things on my own.

Good Luck. You should never regret taking the general ed requirement courses, sometimes those are the ones that prove the most useful and stick with you the rest of your life. It wasn't money wasted.

Doesn't AI also have a pretty solid job placement program? For life? Are we talking about Art Institutes International?

They've presented to my classrooms over the last 8 years, and I've been to AII SF a few times and always wish I could run off and study there, but alas, teach I must...:o

A degree is your toe in the door, try and do without it and you'll probably regret your choice. "Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday..." Think your chances of picking one up later are going to be easier when you are older and have responsibilities....think again.

You have a year and 1/2 invested, I think I'd go for the degree now, later you can upgrade the units you need to to go on into a Masters program if that's what you want to do.

In my opinion, degrees and certificates mean jack shit.

How can anyone place stock in a animation degree from any school when there is no recognized standard for curriculum or achievement to make any degree of value. Possibly ONLY widely recognized schools like Cal Arts or Sheridan MIGHT have some weight, but again.........if the student meets the academic standards of the program they get a degree--and their skills can STILL be quite mediocre. Might be a interesting thing to check out: see how many alumni from these high-profile schools graduate with degrees and actually land work in the biz.

IMO, the ONLY cachet for the industry is actual talent, hence artistic ability--that contained in a portfolio.
A degree or certificate doesn't prove your hands can do the work, only the actual artwork can demonstrate that. About all a degree is good for is that it demonstrates the discipline to stick with a project until the end.

Thems my two cents.

Well Ken I ditched on my first degree. Want a job manning the reference desk at a library or as any other slightly upscale position, you better have at least a BA in something, it doesn't matter what, you just better have one, and it doesn't necessarily matter from where. But have it tucked in your glove box, or be prepared to push lawn mowers or hammer nails.

Also, many graduates complain about how low the job placement is. That doesn't concern me b/c I can get a job fairly easily. However, the thing that does concern me is the Bachelor's Degree is not considered a TRUE Bachelor's Degree. Since the electives are fairly easy and are not at the same level as most other colleges, they are frowned upon when it comes to transfering credits. It is very difficult to find another school which will accept these credits. I am just ticked to find this out now after I've been involved for over a year and a half and it all seems like a waste.

I have to preface this. I am talking about character animation, not effects type animation.

Rant on.

I think you need to ask yourself what you are going to art school for. Are you going there to get better at art and get a job in animation? Or are you going there to transfer to another school and get a master's or so you can teach?

I've been on this for the past few weeks now, a Degree means nothing in the art world. I take that back. Like Ken said, it shows you can stick it out, and hopefully have learned how to finish projects by due dates. Other than that. They are useless except to give to your parents so they feel like they didn't waste all their money for nothing. If I'm looking at two demo reels and one has briliant animation with good weight, and timing, and character acting, and the other one is a bunch of scribbles. I'm going to hire the one with the great animation even if the guy never went to school and was a plumber, over the other person even if they got staight "A's" at Cal Arts.

School job placement can only do so much. They can't get you a job, that's what your portfolio and demo reel are for. All they really can do is find job listings. With the internet you can do that yourself now. Check the job posting here on AWN. Check the studio's own site, the usually have job opening and update them at least once a month. If graduates aren't getting hired from your school there are really only two reasons for this. A) they are lazy. And B) the school hasn't adequetly trained them to be competetive in the job market. There is also the fact that there aren't that many jobs available, but that is a pretty constant thing, execpt for the big boom in the late 80's.

Rant off.

Aloha,
the Ape

Since most entry level animation jobs have been outsourced overseas, I have to be the voice of reason here. A BA will get you a mid management job, without it you'll find yourself supporting your animation hobby by doing construction or service work. Get it in home ec if that's all you can do but get one, if you don't want to be pushing a broom.

The degree itself does nothing... just a piece of paper. But along with the experience, another important part of art school is the contacts you make, whether they be teachers or students. It's tough to get your first big break, but it's a hell of alot easier if you have friends to help along the way. Ultimately, where you end up is upto you, but I truly believe that the friends I made in college helped push me harder than I would've pushed myself alone. We learned from eachother, competed with eachother, and we're all better because of it.
Plus, it doesn't hurt to have good contacts in high places :)

Well Ken I ditched on my first degree. Want a job manning the reference desk at a library or as any other slightly upscale position, you better have at least a BA in something, it doesn't matter what, you just better have one, and it doesn't necessarily matter from where. But have it tucked in your glove box, or be prepared to push lawn mowers or hammer nails.

Yea, but we are talking about animation, and not those other occupations.

Demonstrated ability scores less in some of those other fields than credentials do, and art and animation are almost soley predicated on ability.

My only "concession" is that with today's "recruiters" who look for cookie cutter talent, the degree in hand speaks more to their bureaucratic understandings than the actual understandings of the production or position itself.
Sure, its like a pedigree, but it says NOTHING of disposition or ability.

I know of a few schools that gleefully pursue, or have pursued degree programs, and then require all their instructors to have a Masters degree.........ANY Masters degree.
Art Institute, VFS and Sheridan-have, or recently have expressed or taken steps to set-up degree programs.
The current instructor pool they have, or could have, are gleaned from experienced talent in the actual industry get shut-out because they lack these credentials. And hiring some blockhead just because they have a masters degree, but no animation experiece--that is what it sure sounds like these schools wll be forced to do. How many animators of 15-20 or more years of experience have Masters degrees to begin with?

This is the lunacy of this kind of requirement. IMO, its a bullshit requisite brought on by schools going through the motions and trying to offer something "attractive" to prospective ( but wholly ignorant) students--yet not thinking it through.
Small part of why I've given up teaching animation stuff.

Maybe what should be done is to have the studios brand us on our heinies--with the tag that " He/she can draw"--and we can moon our credentials when asked.
I know of a few people that would take considerable glee at that kind of thing.

In any other line of work, a degree might be needed............but not this line of work. In the 21 years I've been in the biz, I just cannot see the value in it.
My "degree" is in the body of work I've got on my resume'.

I'm thinking of possibly saving the money and stopping with school, but again this hasn't been my main choice.

I don't understand, why would you quit school?

Aloha,
the Ape

i have a core team of 5 with assisting animators. Out of the 5 only one isnt a BFA but then he has worked the scene in all levels for about 7 years.

I would really look at ones portfolio ideally but without proper training there are bound to be weaknesses.

Maybe stop with -that- school, but educating yourself in any way is always a good move...

If you're a back-pocket plan B sort of person college is a good thing to have tucked away because most other fields are going to want it more and more as just a -baseline- standard for knowledge and credibility.