Hey all,
This is my first post, so I'll briefly introduce myself. I'm from Louisville, KY. I'm 38, and just now going from filmmaking to cartooning-- right now, this mostly consists of a comic book I'm working on.
I've been busilly looking for a good film school with an animation major in the Vancouver BC area. I have run face to face with a bewildering bunch of information, and a lot of rep's from schools who want my student loan money.
Does anyone have any first hand experience or info from a reliable source as to which schools produce employable animators/storyboard artists? I'm looking to start this fall, so my loan application needs to get in pretty soon.
There are a couple of schools I'm looking at pretty seriously, but I'd like an unbiased opinion, so I won't go into them here. This is pretty serious business for me, and I really appreciate any advice I can get!
bump...
Well, I am now officially Vancouver Film School-bound. I start the classic animation program Aug 28th, and will probably be in town a month to six weeks prior to that. Everything is taken care of but housing-- which I'm told I shouldn't worry about until about May, as it's hard to get anyone to commit to anything more than two months away.
Right now, I'm kind of hoping to get into a student house for financial reasons, but want to make sure my house-mates are as seriuos about their studies as I am. Otherwise, I'll probably take Ken's advice and look for a place a little out of the city as I seem to have a pretty decent car.
Naturally, any additional advice or assistance would be appreciated.
Hey, Doc, Please mention my name to the registrar at VFS. Seems folks that get others to sign up get "finders fees" for the trouble. :p
Even though I'm officially no longer employed at VFS, I MIGHT qualify for the $$$ after the fact. Never hurts........and hey, it might help pay for my toy addiction , LOL
Good luck there, and say hello to Moose, for me.....you'll know who he is soon enough.;)
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Hi, there is another option, though there's only one intake of 24 students a year. Totally a drawing, design and classical animation program and although you need good drawing skills to be accepted, you'll have great drawing skills when you come out. There's one 3D course in the third term...most courses involve drawing....and Flash is introduced early as an animation tool by instructors who were the first commercial Flash character animators in the area (1999). All four animation directors of Atomic Betty at Atomic Cartoons (www.atomiccartoons.com) and the animation director of Studio B's PUCCA series are recent graduates of Cap.
Every graduate from the last three years has his/her work up on our site at www.gradshow.com/gallery.html and that's the best way to compare us with other schools that may just show off their stars.
Tuition is around $13,000 Canadian per year (a two year program) and the two year program leads directly into the optional third year where you study 3-D character animation. Those grads are on the website as well.
If you want more info on the school (publicly funded), go to www.capcollege.bc.ca
http://www.gradshow.com/gallery.html
Yeah, I looked into Capilano's animation department and liked what I saw. They would seem to be the obvious choice for Canadian residents, though the price hike for foreign students puts them within about $5,000 of everyone else. The fact that FVS let me skip the introductory year was a big factor in my decision-- and the fact that their animation department looks pretty good.
Hey there! I've recently just gone through what your currently going through. I'm actually right now in the process of getting settled into plans for going to Vancouver Film School's classical animation program. I debated for a bit between that and VanArt's, but it seems that VFS's student output is more skilled and higher quality than Vanarts. Although Vanarts is much more affordable. My priorities were on getting the skills I need to get into the industry, so I went with VFS. None of the other progams impressed me because they weren't classical animation focuses, which is my interest.
Hope that helps!
Thanks, Temris! Actually, I'm talking to the VFS people pretty seriously. I'm currently in the process of conning my dad into cosigning a student loan. YIKES!
I've taught storyboarding and comicbook illustration at Vancouver Film School, both in full-time and part-time curriculum, and in the 2D and 3D programs. Let me know what specifics you are asking about and I might be able to help you.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Hey Ken. Let me first say I appreciate the Goodwin quote. I've collected almost every Warren magazine he wrote/edited in the 60s, and he's a favorite.
Generally, I'm going to Vancouver on a student visa because being a union projectionist doesn't count as employment on the permanant resident visa application. I've been emplyed by the same theater full time for nine years. You're only allowed to count the last ten years of your life on the application. So I get a 0 instead of a 21. Which means no permanant residence visa for me.
It has always been my intention to try to get into storyboarding when I get to Vancouver. I don't really relish the thought of going $25,000-$35,000 in debt as soon as I enter the country, but there just doesn't seem to be any other way.
At my age, I will probably have a hard time getting a 25 yr payment plan. With a 10 yr payment plan, I'll have to be paying about $400 monthly when I get out of school. My father is retired and on a fixed income, and I'll need him as a cosigner to get the loan.
I really need to be able to feel confident that I can find a pretty good job upon graduation. That's where it stands.
Well, there's two ways to look at this:
One: storyboard artists are in demand in Vancouver right now. There are opportunities present, and will LIKELY be for a while yet. The industry is "booming" here at present--but that boom might be a burp. It also might be a trend that can last for quite a while--years.
Two: what are your drawing skills like RIGHT NOW? The storyboarding classes taught at VFS and other venues tend to lean towards the technical aspects of storyboarding--that is how to depict pans and label, and cut effectively, stage shots and obey cinematic rules etc. etc.
At least that is what I've been teaching the past few years, and others I know mostly follow suit.
Most studios demand pose-heavy boards, and they are pretty fussy about board artists knowing their stuff. Folks they are not 100% sure of might start out with 'board revisions, or in increasingly less common situations, with 'board cleanups.
Its a bit of an ol' boys network here, with folks that the studios know personally typically getting the jobs first. Your drawing skills MUST be top-notch--the local studios have too many deeply-entrenched regulars they can call most of the time. Mediocre talents just will not make it in 'boarding here unless they are very lucky or improve dramatically.
You really need to stand out, really, REALLY know your stuff and have a lot of drive.
Even talent already working for the studios in other tasks--like design--can have trouble getting 'board work because the producers go with who they know--for the most part.
If you need a work visa to actually get work here............well......its even harder. Not impossible...........just..........harder.
Pay in town for 'boards is variable. Live-action gigs can net around $6K a month, maybe even $10K--2D/3D gigs can be between $4K-6K...but quite a few jobs of late hover around the $2k-$3k range.
Vancouver can be pricey to live in as well--single bedroom apts in the downtown core can go for $800-$900 a month--sometimes as cheap as $600, sometimes as much as $1200. Further out from the downtown core you can find digs for around $600 quite easily.
Stay away from living in the downtown east-side if you can absolutely avoid it-- its an impoverished area and racked with street crimes and tenements.
The animation field is 2D and 3D--mostly games with the latter--and the 3d places like EA and Mainframe always seem to be hiring somebody.
2D boards still happen frequently, but 'boarding in FLASH is becoming the new thing. Studio B--probably the biggest 2D shop is doing alot of that.
Getting live-action gigs typically mean being ballsy or savvy to track down what productions are where and need what......most producers here hire local talent with solid reps.
Keep in mind that very few shops hire for full time anymore. Its project to project on about 90% of the jobs and if the rate is low, you can be up the pungent brown creek without a propulsion device once the project ends.
Getting on another gig can, at the start, be a near constant process.
Now, for the schools....
I'm currently with Art Institute Vancouver teaching storyboarding there part-time. I'm still listed at VFS as a part-time instructor for their non-program evening classes, and not the full-time program. I used to be with the full-time program up until about 3 years ago.
Art Institute is a school that's in flux, but in a good way. Its got some fresh blood in terms of instructors and leadership in their programs that can really transform things there.
VFS has some excellent storyboard instructors: Dan Hughes and Karen Lloyd are two teaching in the 2D program.........and ironically, I taught them as well. They are VFS grads and now pros in the biz--they know their stuff too, and have easily transcended their schooling. I cannot take credit for them anymore , they've both brought more to their game than I ever gave them.
Van Arts I know little about, but I know of a few instructors that have/are taught there. They have a good rep.
Capilano College is an government subsidized facility, not private like the above. I was privileged to teach at Cap College last summer and found some old colleagues there. Again, you will find teachers that know their shit.
I will not BS you here: what you bring to this will make the difference in your success. Everyone gets told this, few actually understand it and implement it. At age 38, you've obviously got some real-world business and life experience under your belt and that can work in your favour.
Your classmates will be mostly 20-somethings--more than a few right out of highschool. A lot will have grand ideas and ambitions, but little or poor focus.
You could be the oldest in your class.
Almost universally, the instructors admire and respect those that are absolutely driven to do this craft. Frustration will probably be a constant companion for you, unless you have good skills already. Maturity and focus can give you the edge.
The schools and studios here tend to be biases in favour of solid cartooning.
Showing appeal, structure and good design sense in your work is the key.
I've had hundreds of students in my time as a teacher at these places. I've had students come from all walks of life. They've been lawyers, housewives, retirees, ex-military, contruction-workers.......people that have very diverse and interesting experiences. Some of those from more challenging occupations have said that making their student films was by far more difficult than their previous careers, but I'd think most would say it was more satisfying as well.
I can only bid you.......good luck.
PS: If you do sign with VFS, please mention my name to them when you do. I might even spot for a class of yours....
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Thank you very much, Ken! I can't remember the last time I got so much straight-forward advice on ANYthing. And this thing is definitely important.
It;s looking like VFS. I just have to get the loan-- which is a probability. They thought enough of the stuff on my site at VFS to let me skip the foundation year. I just have to send in some life drawing-- I'll definitely mention you in my next e-mail.
Animation and game design actually sound like a more full time gig, though I notice some sites for animation companies offer boarding as a seperate service. Getting on at a place like that might be the best option.
Strange as it may sound, animatics are becoming pretty much the norm for commercial shoots here in Louisville, too. I have a few friends in the business, and they say they're seeing a lot more laptops on location than binders.
Thanks for the advice on the city-- I've been warned away of the eastern part of the city before. I have a tendency to want to get out of the city a little bit, anyway. Maybe it's an age thing.
Well, Friday July 28th is my date of departure. I'm currently in the self made hell of trying to force my entire "collection" into a U-Haul 4x6 and a back seat. I should be in Van by Tuesday August 1st, barring any wacky hi-jinx along the way...
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