On the 2D/3D fence

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On the 2D/3D fence

Not too long ago I posted a link to a short clip showing a 2D animated character riding his trusty (?) motorcycle down a curvy road in snowy 3D mountains. It was mostly an experiment at the time, and I got some good feedback--notably I got a post from Omnigon who gave me some pretty detailed suggestions on how to better utilize 2D and 3D in conjunction with each other.

So I set about figuring out what the heck y'meant, Omnigon, and creating models for doing so. In the process, I tried using 3D to lipsynch the standard "Hasta la vista, baby" clip that comes with Magpie. It came out really good--I loved it!

Up til that point I had mainly been modeling more motorcycles (the same amount of time in the garage woulda put mine back on the road!), but then I tried modeling my characters, mainly for reference and possible 2D tracing images in riding shots. The more I work at it, the more I think persuing my project in 3D would get it done sooner.

I really like the look of pencil drawn animation, but I'm mostly focused on my story(s), so I'm not stuck on the 2D thing. I feel like I'll get more done faster in 3D once I've got my basic models set up. I've done some pretty okay stuff with the free software I'm using, which is limited in its capabilities.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but I'm inviting a conversation on moving over to 3D from 2D. One of my concerns was being able to pull of some of the visual gags (eye pops, etc) and dry brush type effects, but I feel there's a hybrid somewhere in there that I can work out.

rupertpiston's picture
Cartoon Thunder There's a little biker in all of us...

Cartoon Thunder
There's a little biker in all of us...

That does help, Omni. I downloaded Maya PLE and am learning that it's not as tough as it looks. I was doing a tutorial and got the feeling that, as technical as 3D may seem, modeling in 3D or drawing 2D is just like walking over to the shelf and grabbing another tool. With that context, it starts feeling less technical and more creative.

For my current project I'm sticking to the free program I've mentioned before, since I'll have no piracy or copyright issues, but I've decided to go 3D all the way for this one. I'm working out figuring some things out about skinning and bone structure in a figure, but I've found these things get worked out as I stick to it and keep trying things.

Cartoon Thunder
There's a little biker in all of us...

This is exactly the boat that I'm in. A lifelong Classical Animator, born and bred, who'se actually taken the brave dive into 3D...I've learned Maya, but as fate would have it, I've just been hired for a job starting Monday, as Softimage XSI animator, where I'll be taught the ropes.

3D or 2D?

I wouldn't compare the two. They're two different things altogether. They have their strengths and weakenesses, and if you're looking into putting together a project, weigh that first, then decide what tool is best to produce the final product.

2D Strengths:

- Freedom and looseness. You can capture soul and feeling in line, that you can't in 3D. Often, even though a drawing might not be anatomically flawless, it's artistically flawless. You have the freedom of limitless exagerration and a miriad of styles.
2D is also organic. A hand drawn image has the charm of the human flaw. The rawness and visual evidence of the artist that drew the image, something that a computer will hide forever. You have the strength of hyper-exagerration, which is something that doesn't necessarily work in 3D, but is greatly encouraged in 2D (depending of course on your desires). This takes the imagination of the artist and viewer to different heights, and depending on your project, might be the only possible way to produce it. If your message to the audience is surreal and borderless, then you won't be able to achieve that in an environment that's limited by the restrictions of real life.

3D Strengths:

You have the power of a fantastic image, with the appeal of realism and a true sense of environment. You have the freedom to reuse your image in any way you see fit, and can completely alter the mood, ambience and perspective of your piece with the click of your button. You can also achieve a much deeper and effective mood and ambience for your film.

This is the reason that 3D has made a big mark when it comes to creating environments for 2D films. Animating and modelling complex geometrical shapes, and creating realistic and complex camera moves is where 3D shines. They're all reusable.
And another feature that most 3D softwares provide is a rendering option called "vector shader", which is a software renderer that flattens surface details and colors to imitate a more "cartoony" look. It doesn't compare to real 2D, but it's something to consider if you want to create a smooth camera move through a 3D environment, and super-impose your 2D animation over it.

I say, use them both, and enjoy them both. Neither is superior, they're just different.

Adam

Ahh...something else....yes, Maya 6 is a fantastic tool, and to be honest, one of the more intuitive 3D softwares. Maya is the software that I'm most comfortable with.
If you're beginning, then there isn't a better book to start with then "Introducing Maya 6 - 3D for beginners" by Dariush Derakhshani. Absolutely fantastic book. Very well written, very easy to get through, and no fluff, just the facts. There are many 3D "wizzes" out there that write books for no better purpose but to show off their skills...those people should be shot.
By the end of this book, you'll be comfortable with all of the basics,and will be able to produce stuff from modelling to render. It's also an encouraging book, because it's easy to follow. 3D is bloody complex, but this book makes it fun to learn. When you get lost in stupidities, that's when you start getting discouraged.
Once you've gotten your feet grounded, and Maya is the software that you've grounded yourself with, then something to move your skills on to the next level is "Maya Character Creation - Modelling and animation controls" by Chris Maraffi. Very good book, a little more advanced, but very followable, and full of great information.
Another great resource once you're confortable with Maya, is to sign up with www.gnomononline.com . A fantastic site wth Short Quicktime tutorials. FULL of fantastic stuff, and a fast learning resource, because it's all being demonstrated and narrated by top pro's in the industry. They teach you fantastic tricks of the trade covering every part of Maya animation.

Adam

PS...Unless it's completely unavoidable, then I would strongly suggest that you DON"T start your venture into 3D by taking on learning Softimage XSI. Although it is a standard in the film industry, and it's also the standard for motion capture, it's about 1/15th as intuitive as Maya or 3DS Max. The learning book and manuals are also written by the most retarded writers known to humankind. One week of trying to strape any kind of useful information out of those will lead you to the same outcome as myself...you'll end up throwing your book across the room, then hand your head and weep like an infant for hours and hours and hours.
But, once you've learned the ropes with a more intuitive software like Maya or 3DS Max, then taking on Softimage will be much easier.

Thanks for all the words, Adam. Very helpful discussion.

A couple hours ago I walked past a stack of roughs, and on top was a drawing I did of one of the bikes in my 'toon. I love drawing bikes. I love the pencil on the paper. I love the way my characters look when I've got 'em going.

Not that I've gotten them going much yet. I've been slowly working this idea up for the last couple of years after thinking about it for close to twenty. Originally I tried Anim8or, a freeware 3D program that's not too bad, to see if it could help me do backgrounds for riding shots. Then I tried making a bike in it. Wow. Then I started working out my characters in it.

Truth is, I still prefer the look of the hand drawn stuff, but it's feeling like once I get my head around my 3d flow, it's gonna be the faster way to go. I'm mostly self trained, along with the help of you all and a weekend workshop two years ago with Nataha Lightfoot. I'm doing this in my spare hours and during in between moments at work between teaching classes.

I thought about combining them, but again, the more I work with even a free prog like anim8or, the faster it seems to go that way. In the end, it's really all about the stories I want to tell, the gags and laughs I want to get. I hope it catches on with my target audience.

In the end, I'm doing it to make myself happy, for the joy of it, for the love of storytelling. So far I'm having a ball. if i keep focused on that, all will be cool.

Cartoon Thunder
There's a little biker in all of us...

Of course...But rest assured that once you get comfortable with 3D, even for a lifelong fine artist and traditional cartoonist and illustrator like myself, it's fun...alot of fun.

But if you are considering venturing into the world of 3D seriously, be prepared...it's alot of learning...and alot of patience...but it's still fun. But alot of work....but it's fun.

right.

Adam

what's better than the greatest set of tools?

"... as technical as 3D may seem, modeling in 3D or drawing 2D is just like walking over to the shelf and grabbing another tool. With that context, it starts feeling less technical and more creative."

the right attitude.;)

Don't worry.  All shall be well.

also of note; Dariush Derakhshani is one of the nicest guys in the animation industry and totally brilliant.

If you enjoy the workability of 3D, there are always cel shaders...

yes, I've heard of these--and to myself I pretended I knew what they were, but in truth I have no idea. What are the names of some of these programs, how do they work, etc.?

I may be a quick learner, but relative to many of you, I'm an unschooled heathen with regard to a lot of animation techniques and technology.

Cartoon Thunder
There's a little biker in all of us...

personally, I thinkt he project should dictate your medium. If you can do a project you're happy with in 3D then that's cool. I suggest you do what you want.

Myself, although i'm a skilled 3D animator it just doesn't give me the same emotional reward as doing traditional hand drawn animation. Sometimes it's a faster process, sometimes it's slower. So in the end I just decide what will serve the purpose of the project the most? Maybe there's something in the project I don't know how to do in 3d but feel confident about doing it in 2d. I do find myself using both pipelines back and forth. Especially when I want to do nice camera moves and use 3d enviornments or vehicles or the like. I've even matched character's tools, like swords and such to a 2d character. For me, the hybrid of the two seems to work better for me. 2D for characters and effects and 3D for characters and effects (yes I mentioned both for effects but you can get nice results when you use both for effects and merge them together).

Building the characters and objects you need for 3d can take a long time if you're doing a real good job, including texturing and rigging. But once that's out of the way the process of animation can move quickly. Some tools like Magpie can make things nice too, however I wouldnt' recommend that tool. It's better if you go through Jason Osipa's book and learn that method.

As far as "toon" or "cel" shading goes. the Guy over at Fenriz.org has made probably the nicest and most accessable Toon shading tutorial for Maya 6+ (because it uses Mental Ray). It's a 3 parter and does require that you know a bit about the Maya Shading and Rendering tools. But I haven't seen nicer results than this in most cases.

Hope this helps