Where are all those memorable stories and characters..??

In my opinion, it's the principle behind all those old stories that made them so great. Steamboat Willie is one of the oldest films out there, but it's mostly recognized only as the "Firsts" kind of film. The ability to captivate the audience with the art, events and dialogue is what makes our work so worthwhile. It's hard to find that magic, I know I haven't grasped it yet, but when a film comes along with the instinctively "right" feel, It blows us all away and remains alive as a classic. The Lion King had it, as I remember, as well as Snow White and Peter Pan. Some of these were indeed existing fables and such, but it was the portrayal of these films that nailed it. When a film can make the viewer completely forget where they are and bring them into focus on that movie and hold them in that trance, with not a care in the world but what would become of the characters, that is what we should strive for. The story is important, and the display sometimes doubly so.

If I'm talking about animation and story to someone, there's really only one film I cite these days:

Iron Giant.

It just encapsulates everything that Animation can be to me.

what are your favorite literary stories of all time?

When a film can make the viewer completely forget where they are and bring them into focus on that movie and hold them in that trance, with not a care in the world but what would become of the characters, that is what we should strive for. The story is important, and the display sometimes doubly so.

That is the most important thing I agree Tod.

Story is definately king. This past year especially, we've seen a bunch of beautiful films that just flopped because of cruddy story.

Things that need to be brought back to animation:

-DRAMA! Give the comedy films a rest for a while!
-Music! Kids love musicals, adults love musicals, and it's an excellent way to really develop a character; an easy 3-minute song can really connect the audience to the protagonist.
-Classic story structure, and even classic stories. The fad seems to be, "lets do this old fairy tale... reloaded!!!" Well, what's wrong with the original fairy tale? Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Cinderella, these are all classic fairy tales that were beautifully done. I think Shrek started the "new-age fairy tale" fad, and I think it needs to stop. What's next, "Rapunzel: Unbraided"?

repunzel unbraided... thats funny as hell

You are aware that that is the title of the 3rd movie in Disney's production lineup, right? That wasn't a joke.

Story is definately king. This past year especially, we've seen a bunch of beautiful films that just flopped because of cruddy story.

I am kind of astonished how much money has been made in the past, say, five years, from stories that "need work."

Three cheers for bringing money in, though...keep the beast alive so everyone can have a bite! :)

Give me characters I can care about. I don't care if the story is full of action, if there is no one that it bothers me to see in danger.

what are your favorite literary stories of all time?

That would make a good thread.
I don't think we've had that topic yet. We've had a "great novel" thread, but not a "great story" thread. I would expand that to include screenplays, comic books, video games, songs, historical occurrences, whatever.

Windchimes mentioned Bambi as an example of a good story, but - really - there's not much of a story there.

Bambi
[I]Deer grows up.
The End[/I]

Lion King is a little more complicated.

Lion King
[I]Father is killed.
Son avenges father.
The End[/I]

(Sorry about giving away the ending to that last one.)

I'm not saying Lion King and Bambi aren't good movies. A good story is not necessarily required to make a good movie, although - IMO - the best movies have good, original, engaging, thought-provoking stories.

Dumbo is a good story.
Pinocchio was a good story until Disney tampered with it to make it much less interesting than the story from the book.
Disney (the company) has a long history - as most of you must be aware - of turning classics into dreck.

That's a huge topic Harvey, sure you want to get into it.

Everyone knows how I feel about Steinbeck, I don't think he ever wrote a bad book.

I also read the Russians. War and Peace and Anna Karinina are fantastic once you learn that people are talking about the same person, only with different names. Doestoevsky, Solzhenitsyn they wrote about different times, but some how the problems were the same.

The Germans, Goethe, Nietzche, Thomas Mann.

I also spent a summer reading the American Southern writers. Tennessee Williams, Faulkner, Carson McCullers, etc.

Then there was my summer with the playwrites, Eugene ONeil, Inge, GB Shaw, and Ibsen.

There are so many and depending on where you are in life, they all have something to say.

Thomas Wolfe and Eugene ONeil could have been brothers from what they wrote.

And what teenager doesn't read Gibran.

When I was a kid I spent my youth with Jack London, and the Hornblower books.

Anway those are a few of the people I spent my youth with. There are so many that have helped develop my life in the direction it's gone.

How about the rest of you.

No female authors? Is that because you're such a he-man, or because you're such a tomboy? ;)

I think Shrek started the "new-age fairy tale" fad, and I think it needs to stop. What's next, "Rapunzel: Unbraided"?

That actually is going to go back to the traditional Disney musical. It's not a spoof or a Shrek copy.

Also, it's directed by Glen Kean one of the greatest animators who ever lived :D I doubt he'll mess up.

James :cool:

No female authors? Is that because you're such a he-man, or because you're such a tomboy? ;)

Last I checked Carson McCullers was a lady. I am afraid I am a child of my times and most well published authors were men. I wasn't paying attention to gender, and the list I gave wasn't a complete one, just the memorable ones I could come up with quickly.

I read Alcott I enjoyed her, E.B.Browning and Emily Dickinson I thought were pretentious. When I was a teen I did like Sylvia Plath.

Give me a canoe and Thoreau any day, and I'll be happy. Or even a good Charles Dickens work. Were they men, does it matter really...I don't think so they told a good story, or related to the world well, like Wordsworth.

That actually is going to go back to the traditional Disney musical. It's not a spoof or a Shrek copy.

Also, it's directed by Glen Kean one of the greatest animators who ever lived :D I doubt he'll mess up.

James :cool:

I know it's directed by Glen Keane*. And he is an amazing animator. But first, good animation does not make a good movie. And second, he's the art director, so I doubt he'll be doing any animating.

THIRD, I never claimed it to be a "Shrek copy". I merely said that Shrek started this trend of making classic fairy tales "cool", and it's really yet to be broken. I don't think we can really speculate whether or not Rapunzel will be one of those, but from the title, it indicates that it will. There isn't much info on it yet, as it's far down the process line.

Besides, Andreas Déja was a lead animator for Bambi 2, but that doesn't mean it was a blockbuster.

Not saying I don't have hope. I'm just praying they change that awful title.

I know it's directed by Glen Keane*. And he is an amazing animator. But first, good animation does not make a good movie. And second, he's the art director, so I doubt he'll be doing any animating.

I'm aware that animation doesn't make a story lol. I have seen many many examples of this over the years lol.

Also, I'm not just excited that Glen Kean is a good animator. I'm excited that he really values a story above all else. And with John Lasseter as the head of Disney Animation I'm really looking forward to this movie.

THIRD, I never claimed it to be a "Shrek copy". I merely said that Shrek started this trend of making classic fairy tales "cool", and it's really yet to be broken. I don't think we can really speculate whether or not Rapunzel will be one of those, but from the title, it indicates that it will. There isn't much info on it yet, as it's far down the process line.

Okay, sorry. I misunderstood.

However, I'm pretty sure it'll be in the style of the classic Disney musical. No pop culture references or that Shrek style humor <_<

I could be wrong, but from what I've read about it, it sounds really good...

James :cool:

I sure hope you're right. A musical CG film would just make my year.

And I'm really glad Lasseter is at the steering wheel of this whole thing. We've seen some... stuff come out of the company, namely Chicken Little (AMAZING animation, plot took a wild turn second half).

Anyway, the test shot I saw from Rapunzel looked gorgeous, at least.

Actually most of Disney's early productions were based on folk tales, fairy tales that had become public domain. Doesn't mean they were bad stories they were the best, time tested and still popular. Had an English teacher once tell the class there are no real new stories, only three separate themes. Based on protagonist and theme. It's the method that tells the story that makes it fresh. How can you relate your story to your audience, and make it memoriable?

i thought it was 7 themes.

I prefer contemporary animated stories by far: the Toy Story movies, Spirited Away, Curse of the Were-Rabbit, Emperor's New Groove, Les Triplettes, Iron Giant, Incredibles, etc.
These movies are far more inventive and engaging than the movies of yesteryear.

With a few exceptions, the stories of the old Disney movies are too boring for me, but I'll sit through them for the animation.

If simplistic G-rated fairy tales are really the type of movie you want, you should be out supporting movies like Curious George and Pooh's Heffalump Movie and The Polar Express.

I sure hope you're right. A musical CG film would just make my year.

And I'm really glad Lasseter is at the steering wheel of this whole thing. We've seen some... stuff come out of the company, namely Chicken Little (AMAZING animation, plot took a wild turn second half).

Anyway, the test shot I saw from Rapunzel looked gorgeous, at least.

lol yeah, I don't think there has ever really been a musical CG movie yet...

lol I kinda liked Chicken Little. It wasn't too bad. The jokes seemed kinda... forced sometimes but overall not too shabby. And the animation is the best I've seen in a while from any CG company.

Yeah, Mr. Lasseter actually had the "Meet the Robinsons" (the next CG Disney in-house movie) script totally redone and now it focuses on story. lol You gotta wonder... what DID they have before it was redone? It musta been pretty bad...

Yeah, at least we know it will be a very beautifully done film. I love Glen Kean's style of drawing. They took his drawings and tried to stick as best they could to them in the CG.

James :cool:

The animation in Meet the Robinsons looks amazing. That tall lanky character is just stunning in design.

I think I liked the test footage from SIGGRAPH better than some of the trailer footage, even though it wasn't even textured.

i thought it was 7 themes.

You could be right, been a long time since I was in school.

Harvey, what about Pinochio? I thought it had just about everything in it. Haven't seen it in a long time, but as a kid parts of it scared me, parts of it made me laugh, and the songs stuck in your head.

Give it time.

Most of the stories we've seen over the past decade were more products of the executive-driven studio climate than those from a artistic climate.

If the changes spoke of at Disney truly result in a turnaround in the overall animation biz, then expect others to follow suit with more inventive stories and bolder chances taken on same. in about a year or two, whatever was already in the pipeline before will come out and the stuff that follows SHOULD be more in tune with that ideal.

But time will tell...

I always thought there was a lot of merit to the Hamlet comparisons that The Lion King got.

i think stories and images gain their power from the passage of time. the longer they are around, the stronger they get (assuming they are good or attractive to begin with)

i think these films you mention that came out nowadays will be classics for a modern generation and they will reflect the sign of times when they came out.

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Actually most of Disney's early productions were based on folk tales, fairy tales that had become public domain. Doesn't mean they were bad stories they were the best, time tested and still popular. Had an English teacher once tell the class there are no real new stories, only three separate themes. Based on protagonist and theme. It's the method that tells the story that makes it fresh. How can you relate your story to your audience, and make it memoriable?