Deep Canvas/Painting on a 3D Background

yeah thanks beeblebrox. I found out about the cel-shading/toon-shading a lil after i made the post, and they are definitley 2 different ways. But no doubt a big step towards the effect i'm trying to achieve.

I have Tarzan on DVD, and it has a great special features part. So i went over it again last night, and in specific, the Deep Canavas bit. It's exactly like you said - geometric shapes representing a 3D background, completley movable like a live-action camera, that can have background artist apply digital paintstrokes to the surface of the shapes. Really is an amazing effect.
Still, it seems the technology hasn't leaked from the Disney building to the mass-public yet.

DrSpecter: This Z-brush - is that a feature of a program or a program in itself? Could be worth a look if you think it can do this. Thanks.

aye, if there is a program out there that can do 'Deep Canvas', or one that's close - please let me know! Cus i've searched for ages and can't find any that can myself.

thanks

...however, here's an update. Apparently Eric Golderg has said that Disney has bought 'off-shelf' digital animation software for the upcoming 'The Princess and the Frog', as, and I quote "the older stuff that was there has now been caught up, and it's easier (i.e cheaper!) to buy off-shelf than to put it all back together again". This was in relation to CAPS though, so i'm not sure about Deep Canavas. Anyone know or could find out what products Disney bought off-shelf to reinstitute the trad-anim depot

We've gotten pretty close with hand-painted texture maps

Would you be able to elaborate on that for me as I am really interested in this, and would really appreciate it.

thanks very much for your help.

yeah, that's prety damn cool. So you can get different camera angles now of the whole 3D envrioment, and it looks more traditional?

Are you animating the characters etc in 3D too though? As i'd be looking to animate the characters traditonally, and as i'm pretty noob-esque at any 3D animation software, i dunno how or even if, you can put traditonal animation characters into a 3D created background/enviroment in the 3D programs?? Is there a way, or do you have to look into compositing in something, i dunno - like After Effects?

I'm thinking like the Ballroom scene in beauty and the beast. Trad animation, 3-D enviroment (and i'll paint that enviroment to look like it's also traditonal). I know Disney used CAPS etc there, but that's what i'm after (well, i'm after a Deep Canvas effect, but that's getting close :) )

People mention texture mapping. But isnt that just wrapping an image around a 3D element? (i dunno - i really am dumb when it comes to 3D software!) So that definitley wouldn't work if it is...

So, as my interest builds - i decided to delve around deeper.

After what seems like an afternoon of Googling and internet searching, i discovered what looks like to be a failry close version(s) of DC that is available to the public. It's basically figuring out how to incorporate several public-offered programs together to create a similar effect.

I discovered Amazon Paint 3D, that can apply brush strokes directly onto the 3D geometry, exactly like DC. It is intergrated with Maya too. From alot of searching i came accross it via an article published by 'Computer Graphics World' entitled Modern Classic. Some way into the article I came too a company in LA who created a few new Tony The Tiger Kelloggs ads. They used a combo of 3D enviroments and trad animated characters. They did the animatied characters in Toonz & Toon Boom, and created the BG's in Maya. From there, they took the BG's into Amazon Paint 3D and Right Hemisphere's Deep Paint 3D, to make them blend with the trad animation (i.e. make them look trad). Voila! Deep Canvas at a budget. The compositing of the two at the end was skimmed over in the article - but it i think it mentions it was done in Nothing Real's Shake and Avid's Media Illusion . Anyone know about these Programs for compositing the trad characters and the maya bg's?

Also, i had a long look over DreamWork's 'Spirit' film (the one with the horses).
They did alotta DC-esque stuff too.
They mentioned scanning paintings of the bg's (which had been based very closely on Maya Layout's), then using the scanned trad paintings as textures on the 3D enviroment in Maya. But they used a propriety software they created called Toonstage, which was an actual Maya plugin created by DW. This enabled them to put the 2D characters actually in Maya, and register the pegbars within Maya itself, atop the 3D backgrounds. So it sounds like it was all composited in Maya.
With newer versions of Maya out now, i was wondering if anyone knows if Maya can alow you nowadays to put 2D characters in the program, atop the 3D models/backgrounds - without creating programs/plugins? If it is not part of the newest release Maya - it damn well should be! 2D/3D hybrid's create beautiful stuff. Or Perhaps there is a public-available plugin out now for Maya (like Toonstage) that can do this nowadays??

Also - i came accross Maya PaintEffects - part of Maya itself. Anyone able to eleaborate on this? It too sounds promising...

Thanks,
Rich.

here's their site, the guys who did the Kelloggs ads - although i cannot play the Quicktime movie they offer, so perhaps you'll have better luck...

2D/3D Hybrid

just scroll down and click on Kelloggs comercial. it also seems they have done it on several other commercials too...

Any information on the programs i've listed? Anyone have firsthand experience working on them?

And most importantly: Anyone able to tell me (a 3D noob!) how to go about working with 3D backgrounds/envrioments from Maya and 2D animation (digital) together? (i.e. where or how to composite the two, to work on and get a finsihed piece with a 3D background and a 2D animated character)

ok....so Media Illusion and Shake, the two programs used for composition, i.e. intergral to creating a 2d/3d hybrid.

Media Illusion: no longer in production. sold in 2002 for....$24,000!!!!!
Shake: now offered by Apple (originally by Northing's Real) costs alot less but still $4,000!!!! And, is for mac (becuase it's made by Apple). I have a PC, and cannot afford to buy a whole new Mac just for this!

And thus ends the dream! lol.

Yet there maybe hope...
here's Apple Shake's webpage: Shake

Can someone look over that and see if any program out there does that stuff a) for a pc and b) on a simpler scale, and thus cheaper. I'm thinking Adobe AfterEffects??? (which i already have! yay!) Can Aftereffects do any of this stuff? I'm only interested in the 'putting the 2D and the 3D bits together' part, all the rest is just fancy excess to me. I just need a program that can composite Maya Backgrounds (that have been painted in Amazon Paint 3D) and my 2D Digital Character Animations - that works on a pc, not just a MAC!

Thanks guys,
Rich.

Thanks Beeblebrox.
From first hand experience, do you know if AfterEffects is a good (when i say good, i mean 'can it do it'!) program for intergrating 2D characters onto 3D backgrounds? Can you defo take Maya 3D backgrounds/enviroments into Aftereffects without harming them (does it do it on a shot per shot basis, e.g. you do the 3D shot in Maya, and take it 'still frame' 1 at a time into ther AfterEffects timeline. Or can AfterEffects handle the movable 3D enviroment, and 'shoot it' in AfterEffects?)
As you obviously can tell, this'll be my first dive into any 3D program. but i think it's a good idea to keep pushing yourself artistically, especially in your work - so i'm gonna press on with this idea and see what happens.
I'd only wish i could just pick up a program, and just do it - ya know? :D
"Right, this is my idea - let's go do it!" There's so many technical things to consider, especially with public-offered programs. But s'pose you could argue that when you find a way eventually, it makes it all the more worthwhile.

This is my untested plan thusfar:
Layout shots -----> 3D Backgrounds in Maya (no easy task for me, but i'll give it a shot and playaround like you said) ------> Paint those Maya Backgrounds in Amazon Paint 3D -----> Animate Characters in one of the several Digital Animation programs (e.g. ToonBoom, Toonz, Flipbook) -------> Composite in Adobe AfterEffects.
Can anyone say anything about this, like "no, this won't work because...." or "you should do this..." etc??

Thanks guys,
You've been a big help,
Rich.

excellent! That's just what I was hoping for. Do you have any examples of the show you did by any chance - just so i can see the effect in action?

Now i know i can use Maya to make 3d backgrounds that can be intergrated with 2d characters - i can go buy Maya! Next, is hours of learning the ropes of this 3D beast i've heard about for so long and never touched... Here we go...

PS: Are there multiple versions of Maya. If so, is there a recommended version to get?