Can someone tell me details of 2D animation prices of the main 'quality' studios in India?
TOONZ is about the most reputable for consistent quality and schedule delivery. What do studios like that charge for the following........
2D Traditional Animated TV Series:
*Layout
*Animation
*Clean-Up & IB
*BG Painting
*Digital Ink & Paint
*Final Compositing
What would be the budget for a 22 min episode or 11 min episode with this criteria.
Any help would be appreciated.
below the belt....not realizing that your request for "animation studio referrals" was actually a hidden invite to be ambushed by Mr Animation. In the defense of Dessin Works and ALL the young, brave new animation studios worldwide whom have the guts to even attempt to complete at MIPCOM, Nampe, MIPTV and the good ol'boys club of medical investors back in Bolly/Hollywood, I beleive this being their FIRST year and project entering the market actually selling...1 for 1 is pretty good out the gate. The simple fact that this Chip n Stolly series is even SELLING says it all. So you young guns whom read this post just put asside those Mr Animations out there and keep the faith, work hard, and even yes...sweat a little in a tight work space like those "beleivers" at the young Dessin Works studio, family owned. Can you say "Pixar" back in the day? I guess even in animation as in live music there is always that one person in the crowd telling others..."listen to that...I can play better guitar then that" :)
hi
starts from 35k to 60kUS$ in that range based on the complexity of the show
m :)
Thanks Manoj,
The lower prices scare me a little as they may suggest low quality work and we know that is still a big problem with many of the zillions of new studios cropping up in India. Can you suggest the best and most reliable?
-C-
hi
the fact is that philipines will be history soon unless they start colaborating with indians,it will be a win win for both and prices wil come down,other wise in the next two years it will be goodbye manila,once india and china move u think small countries in the region will ever have a chance.look what happened in IT. :(
Dataquest is already sending philipinos back...as indians there are picking up,if mike young and peter ungar can give work to indian they must be finding some value somewhere....discussions can go on forever :D
bye :)
i would recommend you expect something in the range of $60,000 for a 22 min all inclusive without post production.
it really depends on what scope of work you are looking for. i mean the studio should be interested in the work as well.
there are a huge number of studios - crest,2nz,toonz,utvtoonz,futurethought etc.
youll just need to look at the platforms etc.
low prices arent the problem. it can be done. question is set up. is it viable, licensed etc. that is really the key.
if the studio is big, then they have higher costs, if it is too small then they cant do justice.
key is to really come down and have a look.
:)
First paragraph is really arrogant. You sound like G.W.Bush (AND you can't spell the Philippines like dubya can't pronounce "Eye-Rack")
Second paragraph is misinformed. Dataquest is 'sending' Filipinos back? Or are they resigning?
Heres a bit from a letter from one of those dissilusioned Filipinos who recently went to work for DQ:
[I]i survived my 2months here
together. its hard to earn money here coz
they didnt follow our agreement.. they suppose to pay
us a 400rupees,they also said they going to give us a
hundred scenes work per month but it was all a
lies..instead they make it pro rate if you reach a 120
quota which is hard to reach. then they wil pay you
400, if not 300 only per sc.[/I]
I also hear one of their top directors quit recently.
Sounds a bit different than what you say.
Why would you like the price to go down? It is already down. This is not a product done in a factory, processed then sold in the market. These are people working every drawing, not machine. They need to be payed for every footage done. If a machine can do the job, then the prices can go down.
Exactly Parvus!
It takes a long time for 'businessmen' to realize this. Some never do!
:D
hi.
cataract. could you explain what you mean by scenes? ive never heard of calculations made that way.
Most "layout" prices are calculated per scene in many studios. If there are long panning shots then they break it down per field. I think you assumed this letter was from an animator right? Maybe I should have clarified that.
Many Filipino layout artists recently went to India to work for DQ. I'm sure there are more stories in the same vein. Dataquest sound like they have a credibility problem and if anone knows anyone from their management then invite them to look at this forum. That would be interesting,
Come on guys........we all know there are rip-off merchants in the Indian animation industry just as there are in the Indian......'anything'....industry. My original post was, and still IS an attempt to find a studio that has a reputation that I can trust TOTALLY. Despite the 'wounded' rant of Mr. Voicetoons who only addresses the fact that Dessin made some money but won't talk about the quality of their work. I guess he doesn't know the difference between good and bad animation. Why would he? He is a voice artist.
Hey Voicetoons.........many things SELL. Cigarettes, Lottery Tickets, Canned corned beef........er.....pornography......!
I guess THAT "says it all"
I wish someone would tell me that there is an Indian studio that does 'excellent' animation AND treats their best artists well AND can deliver ON TIME and at COMPETITIVE RATES!
-C-
;)
The fact is, most people outside India are sniffing out the Indian scene for one reason - not quality, but cost - until this relationship is broken there can never be an improvement, because of the perennial dilemma that exists between money and creativity - the two things are mutually exclusive.
Personally I think the India animation "industry" should get its act together and stick 2 large fingers up at what their overseas clients want and do their own thing - everything coming from the Far East is horribly generic & totally lacking in imagination - isnt this what animation is about ?...IMAGINATION ??
Hello,
There are lot many studios have reputation in their schedules/deliveries. You can check my company details bellow here. Regarding prices it is negotiable.
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Spread over 3,000 sq. ft., housing leading-edge software and hardware for developing 2D/3D animation, high end SFX and graphics and computer gaming.
A rich pool filled with talent comprising of artists, writers, technicians, software professionals and industry stalwarts in related business areas such as 2D/3D animation production, interactive software, games, SFX and graphic solutions, and print syndication.
A complete set-up of manpower and infrastructure to develop and syndicate Content for diverse media be they films, TV, print or the web.
Our expertise includes:
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As a growing company, we firmly believe that it's our people and our ability to work on a wide range of software that enables our clients to entrust us with their valuable projects. As is the nature of creative industry, "time is the essence of any project". In order to facilitate tight deadlines, and to maximize time spent on content and quality, we use state of the art hardware to complement our software tools.
We offer competitive edge for your business advantage through our Professional Management and Personalized Service.
Thanks and Regards.
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ELECOM TOONS
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Ph: +91-33-24921095/24927772
email: bikram@elecomtoon.com
Web: www.elecomtoon.com
Hi Parvus,
Check your private messages.
-C-
Hi Cataract,
I am writing this for second time.
If you go for flash animation I would like to suggest you company called 'metalearn services Pvt. Ltd.'(Bangalore) India. Please check out their website www.metalearnindia.com for sample of animation works.
Looking forward to hear from you.
Regards,
Uday
well this is the first i really heard of calculating per field. my experience has been mostly with feet of film or more preferably seconds.
anyway.
have u looked at Crest. personally im all out of opinions.
but there are scams everywhere. i dont think DQ is a scam studio. what they do with the artist is different from what they do with the client. timely delivery of what is promised.
“cataract” seems to have an in-depth knowledge of what is happening in the Indian animation industry. He knows even the inside stories! If he know so much can’t he get quotes without posting in forums!?
“cataract” is criticizing the whole Indian animation industry on base of one website, he does not reply to posts pointing to other animation studios…. and still he is asking for other firms? I wonder the actual motive behind this thread. Is this some sort of cheap business trick… are you trying to promote Philippine animation industry? Or are you just throwing mud on Indian animation industry? In that case the moderators should think about editing this thread as appropriate…
If the question was genuine then accept my apologies (the really harsh criticism on an animation firm and the other posts in this thread made me think that way). And wish “cataract” good luck in finding the best studio no matter if it’s in India or in Philippines.
Sam,
I welcome your opinion even though you are a bit suspicious of my motives. Just because, in the course of my posts and replies, I have raised some important points which might be uncomfortable for others to hear, your suggestion that moderators censor this thread is way too extreme. This is a public forum and its called 'The Business of Animation'........I don't see anything 'off topic' here.
I do admire (promote) Philippine talent as they are the BEST! Unfortunately prices there are also among the highest in the Far East so that was the original reason for my inquiry into Indian studios. I have checked the other sites which were given to me and was not really impressed by them too much.
Frankly, I don't think that Indian Studios are even near the standard of some studios in Korea & China. I would love to be proven wrong.
Lastly, I don't see anything wrong with talking openly about inscrupulous business practices no matter where they happen. My quote about DQ came straight from an email written by someone who worked there recently and he felt cheated and claimed he was lied to in order to make the job more attractive. That is not "throwing mud on [the] Indian animation industry" it's just sharing information which is what public forums are all about.
-C-
wow. finally someone with a POV.
the problem though is that the local market for local animation is shite. they offer barely enough money to cover production and even there if you make something that is culturally indian it is hard to sell outside.
but yeah i do agree. its only about cost nothing to do with quality. ive just gone into preproduction and wow. its like having a headache all the time to make something happen in a market like this.
there is virtually no support from the govt or anywhere else. its an uphill battle to get a production made and then to sell it.
animators refuse to work for paycuts regardless of the kind of work so it is hard to get the quality animators invovled.
on the other hand its fun :) to make this happen.
also everyone in this country is so hung up on 3d because people are being paid much better but they refuse to see that the good money comes with good experience and a basic skill set.
but there is no telling these lot.
Might I suggest Dessin Works, in Chennai India. I've completed 13x 22:00 episodes now selling in europe markets and working on 13-more. I've found them to be clean, honest and reliable. Give them a visit and ask for Rajini.
www.dessinworks.com
ive seen a thing or two by Dessin Works. quite interesting stuff. they have the imagination and is a good upcoming young studio.
wouldnt be a bad choice
Thanks for the well meaning tip but.........
OK........gloves off!
I had a good look at their website and viewed all the art samples & video clips therein. I actually suffered the whole site and am still recovering. Their main weaknesses seem to be;
Layout
Storyboard
Animation
Staging
Hook-up
Acting
Posing
Timing
Drawing
Color Composition............etc
Apart from that its a great studio I guess......
I hope I don't offend anyone personally with my opinion but if a studio like that is a 'competitive' force in India then I am gobsmacked. They even mention a training program on their site. It sounds very comprehensive and if it teaches everything it says it does, I guess the present regulars missed it.
It wasn't all unbearable to look at as there were moments of comedy. The clip showing limited animation (stretching the term to breaking point) has a strange choice of soundtrack. Check it out http://dessinworks.zftp.com/animations/limited.mpg and boogie! Strange choice of track to go with such stiff 'un-animation'. Travolta be dammed for your fluid gyrations.
The show that seems to be their showpiece "Chip & Stolly" is so abysmal I almost fell off my chair to think someone, not only conceived and commissioned this, but PAID for it.
If you dare......here it is; http://dessinworks.zftp.com/samples/show%20reel_2.mpg
One of the Flash cartoons had ok design but the animation was the standard look of cut-out puppets. Why abuse Flash this way? It's not hard to do better. Have a look at some 'creative' work designed and animated to the maximum 'limitation' of Flash. http://www.funnyazhell.com/ I knew these guys in the 80's and later they worked at Disney for many years until the Disney dictatorship almost suffocated them and so they did "something completely different"
I was hoping someone would know of a studio that actually produces something half decent. I have heard figures like 60K USD per 22min episode and I wish I could see something that would remotely justify this fee. If the only studios that can do real animation only do so by poaching Filipino talent (EG: TOONZ & DATAQUEST) to support their otherwise useless collections of expensive hardware and armies of IT techies, then perhaps producers should take another fresh look at what is still happening in the Philippines before getting on the scripted bandwagon and rushing to India to save money. Many independent groups have sprung up in Manila and they may still offer an economic alternative with very high standard of work.
Another thing about Dessin.........take a look at the workspace photos on the main home page of the site. http://dessinworks.zftp.com/dessinworks/main.html I wonder how long it will take the producers there to realise that putting people into spaces fit for battery hens is directly related to the creativity that they get from them. One of the pictures (attached) looked like animators would actually bump elbows with each other while drawing and their chairs would be knocked in the back as others would pass behind them while going to and from their desks. I can only assume that the wages they pay these artists guarantee that their physique stays at a level to accomodate them through such confined spaces.
Thanks for the well meant suggestions but I think I'll pass on Dessin studio for now. I will sit back now and wait for other readers to verbally scorch me for my honesty.
Frankly,
-C-
PS: I have recently learned that there are more than a few Indian animators in Manila hoping to get more experience and training by working with local artists. These will eventually be the second wave of entrepreneurs that will take Indian animation to a higher level. I have seen the same thing in Taiwan & China in the 80's & 90's. When artists come to a sense of realizng their own ability, they begin to re-evaluate their relationships with the non creative businessmen who run the studios and realize who, in fact, need who more. When talented groups of artists form new companies on this premise, that will be when India really becomes a serious player in quality global animation production.
Another warning I can pass on here is a certain scam that seems to be popular with 'some' new studios. They sign a deal for a series and take a sizeable advance payment from the producers abroad. Weeks (or months) go by with nothing done and when the client is fed up and demands the money back and the contract cancelled, the 'scam' studio will gladly hand the money back.........after having used it for invesments in short term interest schemes to fund other ventures.
OUCH! :eek:
well they have a series that has been sold which has been partly developed in the States. i saw bits of it here and it seemed pretty good quality 2d work. i didnt like the concept personally but i can see where its appeal would lie.
the site suffers but that isnt reflective of their work. however i have seen little of it but they have sold their rights quite a few territories.
make of that what you will.
as for Cataracts last part. i would urge anyone here looking to outsource business check up on credentials in person if possible. i can understand its not always possible but there are def ways to obtain information through TASI, Animation Express NASSCOM.
i wouldnt put it beneath anyone to do that. take the money and run. i would expect any producer to take a look at the facilites in person before giving a job out. anyone swayed by prices is bound to get in trouble.
i think Cataract your opinion is brutal but well meaning. no harm no foul.
i think there is solid talent in Philipines and India but talent dosent mean much when there is no money to produce.
hi...i saw your quote above from some weeks back regarding animation studios in the philipines...i am not the original sender of that message but i have a similar need...we have 3-stories that we are beginning to script...3-feature films, one to follow the other...our business is just getting organized...so i am wondering what-is-what in asian animation studios...we would like to partner with a talented and capable group...does the philipines have that capability...i appreciate any thoughts you might have on who we should speak to regarding animation production in asia...thank you in advance...best wishes...ken nimmer.
[
hi...i just tuned into awn and got to your original question...which is one i share...just wondering how you are doing in locating an asian animation studio...we have 3-feature length animation projects that are in development and we would like to partner with a high-quality asian studio...i guess i am asking if you have found one that you might refer me to...we would like to begin discussions asap...thanks in advance...hope your search has gone well...best...ken nimmer.
QUOTE=cataract]Can someone tell me details of 2D animation prices of the main 'quality' studios in India?
TOONZ is about the most reputable for consistent quality and schedule delivery. What do studios like that charge for the following........
2D Traditional Animated TV Series:
*Layout
*Animation
*Clean-Up & IB
*BG Painting
*Digital Ink & Paint
*Final Compositing
What would be the budget for a 22 min episode or 11 min episode with this criteria.
Any help would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Ken i dont know what your budget is, but at this point if you ask this question i can gurantee youll have 40 PM's telling you pricing and how good people are.
the key is you really need to take a week or less and fly down to India. Visit Bangalore, Mumbai if nothing and meet with people, look at the infrastructure and find what you find comfortable.
there are a lot of smallish studios working out in unglamourous conditions who could possibly deliver as well.
in general there are stock answers for most things you could end up with something like $20-$25k for 11 mins i reckon. but it all depends really. dont go by price. it has little to do with quality. i knw a few people who have spent more than that and dont have the quality to show for it.
hi ;)
whats happenning in india is we get part of the work done at philip0iku[k;j';k'pines,the IB and compositing is done here,quality is not a problem the problem is most indian studios under cut and clients are clever they go to the guy who quotes the lowest knowing fully well the quality of animation is directly dependent on the money that you are willing to invest.
i am planning a feature to be done in india and manila have some good contacts there and a studio infra structure of an large studio available in india.
your warnings are quite correct to a great extend,but i recon animation is all about having talented people -space /equipment etc can be assembled in a very short time.
a good quality 2d series will cost 60k per episode..how low we can go on pricing depends on how we build a relationship and how honest both the parties are to each other....it has to be win win ,atleast i work like that,other wise why should someone come to us with so much money.
we can do the work for you , i will send u a private message on that...also some other studio names.
bye :)
Hi ,
If you go for flash animation I would like to suggest you company called 'metalearn services Pvt. Ltd.'(Bangalore) India. You can check out there website www.metalearnindia.com for sample of animation works.
Regards,
Uday
Cataract, I send you reply on your PM.
If you like top quality animation for your shows, the best place to go is Manila, Philippines. The best in Asia. I know, because I was one of the supervisors for Marvel TV series. I am a Filipino, but I currently work here in Europe as a cinematic 3d animator. Some of my friends have their own studios there now, I can refer you to one, you can talk about the price.
The animation supervisor of DataQuest in the Philippines is a friend of mine, he did a lot of good shows for them but now he resigned, effective end of April. He got reason he did not tell me. He just said he is not happy working for them anymore. There is another friend who works for another Indian studio, he took the animation in Manila for Filipino animators then send them back to India for inbetweening, he told the manager in India that if they bid lower than $50,000/episode would be disaster. The Indian wants to bid $30,000 so as to get the contract. He said no. Few weeks pass and the Indian was so happy to inform him that they got the contract. But to his shock, the contract was $30,000. Now he cannot get quality animators, the price must go down as well. He now relies from experienced inbetweeners to do the animations.
I talk to them from time to time to know what's going on in the animation industry.
[QUOTE=ken nimmer][
hi...i just tuned into awn and got to your original question...which is one i share...just wondering how you are doing in locating an asian animation studio...we have 3-feature length animation projects that are in development and we would like to partner with a high-quality asian studio...i guess i am asking if you have found one that you might refer me to...we would like to begin discussions asap...thanks in advance...hope your search has gone well...best...ken nimmer.
QUOTE
Hi Ken,
Got your PM. I PM you back. I will e-mail you when I got home from work.
Catch you later.
Parvus
Well, thats another typical story I guess. The 'Indian' (producer) you mention must have magic powers if he can turn inbetweeners into animators by just changing their title. I'm sure he wants to keep this magic secret to himself eh? Hehe.......
They all learn in time
Your story suggests that Filipino animators had already done some animation for this guy. Did they get paid??
(more of this letter on PM)
-C- :rolleyes:
They get paid, but at a very very low rate. So more animators leave to find one with better rate/foot.
Some try their luck at Disney in Pasig City (near Manila) that pays really good, but theirs are also enough for regular animators.
Hey Cataract,
Tryout www.ustanimatrix.com. Though under-construction they have pretty decent work to reflect their capabilities. I have worked with them in the past & feel they have it in them to make a difference.
Hi there,
We're from China. I am looking for possible opportunities to cooperate with you. We are good at and confident in providing 2D, 3D high quality& cost-effective finals. Please feel free to CONTACT me if you had any outsourcing demand. I am at your disposal at any time.
Company info：
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We will continue to upload the latest projects.
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email: christina@hugeclaw.com
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I talk to them from time to time to know what's going on in the animation industry.i am planning a feature to be done in india and manila have some good contacts there and a studio infra structure of an large studio available in india.
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Hi there,
We're from China. I am looking for possible opportunities to cooperate with you. We are good at and confident in providing 2D, 3D high quality& cost-effective finals. Please feel free to CONTACT me if you had any outsourcing demand. I am at your disposal at any time.
Company info：
Huge Claw Animation Studio is located in Shenzhen, China. Our goal is to make innovative cartoon animations with creativity and professionalism. We prefer in-depth works to quick-payoff production. Please check our website: http://www.hugeclaw.com/
Here is our main page in youtube.com: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOeAJn2V1KWBLuXUacDr1Rw/videos
We will continue to upload the latest projects.
It would be great to hear back from you. We look forward to cooperating with you. Please feel free to contact us at any time. Thank you for your time.
Yours sincerely,
Christina Wu
email: christina@hugeclaw.com