Sometime ago I answered the following ad for the AWN joblist http://careers.awn.com/jobdisplay.php3?job_no=7985 . I would like to know if any of you actually answered to this job and the results.
Believe me this is important, as I have been cheated out of a job because of this and now I believe that I found out why.
The person that wrote this ad might be thinking of using the AWN website, a great animation database, to strike again, so please help me and help yourselves so that this never happens again.
Thank you!
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"check it out, you know it makes sense!" http://miaumau.blogspot.com/
OH my, what a mess !
I somehow have more information about all this, here's my story.
I'm a Belgian citizen and i too replied to the job offer. I was invited to the office, met up with 'The Guy' and was promised a job, and hey, i'm a man. So far i haven't heard from him again though. But i do believe that first ; studio delta seven was indeed the former belgian 3d studio ( it was listed in belgian production listings, had an address and phone (now disconnected)).
Second ; i do believe the 3d project was 'real', though i'm not sure about that. I know there's hardly anything to find on google about it, but, some Italian animation studio claimes to have made the model designs for corus media group/studio delta 7. check this site and see for yerself : http://www.artesaiph.com
The characters are to be seen there, and they fully stroke with what 'The Guy' explained me about the project !
So where you go from here ?
I hope someone can add some more info about all this as.. hey ! what about that job they promised me !!? :confused:
Amie ? Did you actually work in the studio ? on that project ?
I read it, but it is probably too late...
I live in belgium and worked for the 'famous' corus media thing group...
I'm a student and they offered me a great job. I'm so goddamn naief that i was happy and agreed. So far it has been 3 months. They didn't pay me yet. i think i might loose it, f***ers, i'm so mad!
I'm sorry in advance if I've said this before (this is another topic it seems.):
But the perception is if you are any good at what you do as an artist, you make it look easy, if it's easy therefore it didn't take you long, if it didn't take you long (and, yes, as artists it will never take us as long as someone who can't do it, but they won't appreciate this) therefore it wasn't that hard, if it wasn't that hard how could it be worth much? Add to that the perceived deceptive simplicty of animation drawing plus its reputation as a kiddie-craft, by then it's next to free or worse yet you have to pay to do your craft working for some self-professed genius with no animation experience.
It is indeed not brain surgery what we do. We do not take lives into our hands but, oh, it (art) is a life necessity.
I have to disagree.
The main reason we get this type of crap is because we let it happen. Try opening a small business in any other field and see what happens the week after your employees or freelancers didn't get their paycheck. I doubt you'll still be in business 6 months later if you don't clean up your act.
I've found myself in situations where fellow artists -who also weren't getting paid- started looking at me like I was a traitor for standing up to this kind of bullcrap and leaving. It's sad really.
Just imagine what would happen to these places if they had to find fresh blood every month instead of every 4 to 6 months.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy [i]-Tom Waits
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To clarify: this is the perception of those who take advantage of you, not what I believe, certainly not. Yes, Dave I know exactly from experience what you say.
I know what you're saying Graphite, my point is that in any other field it wouldn't matter what their view is, the problem would solve itself. For example, I can think that getting my car fixed isn't worth 500 bucks as much as I want; if I don't cough up the money I'll be walking. I might weasle my way out of paying once, but it wouldn't be long before I run out of mechanics to go to.
Yet in our industry this kind of thing can keep going on forever. If you tell 10 animators that you got screwed over by a client, chances are half of them will be working for that same client two weeks later. And come complaining four months later that they got screwed as well.
Btw, this is not meant as a dig at you Amie; everybody gets hustled at least once in this industry, so try not to feel too bad about it. If you did some stuff you want for your reel, get it now if you don't have it already; and if you have some sort of contract, head straight for the local union office to file a complaint. I've dealt with a lot of these so-called 'hotshot producers' when I was still working in Belgium, and most of them aren't quite as tough as they would like to think they are. Meestal veel geblaat maar weinig wol :D
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy [i]-Tom Waits
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What happened? I often wonder if half these jobs are on the level.
The problem was that he was just using this company called Corus Media Group to pick up women. He created a whole new persona with a very impressive Resumé in the movie industry (I even tried to find him on the imdb.com website and nothing!) and has this story about a feature film. One the things that seemed strange when I met him was that he said that he was having a lot of problems finding animators! We all know that there are loads of good unemployed animators out there that wouldn't mind moving to Antwerp for a year! But thinking about it, there are much less female animators than male, especially in 3d!
With this story, I'm not telling people not to use the AWN joblist, all I want is to find out if he has tried this on other female animators and I would like to stop him from ever doing this again, because I believe that AWN is a great website and it shouldn't be missused.
"check it out, you know it makes sense!" http://miaumau.blogspot.com/
You'd have to be out of your mind to move to Belgium on a freelance contract. Seriously.
And yes, it would be extremely hard to find that many experienced 3D people in Belgium. The few artists that are still in the country and have a decent staff position won't give it up to do freelance for a place that looks like it dropped out of nowhere, and the rest is scattered all over the globe. And any experienced international artist will do a quick google and come to the conclusion that this place didn't exist untill a week or so ago.
So no, I'm not surprised he's having a hard time finding artists. :D
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy [i]-Tom Waits
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believe me, at the time I was searching for a job everywhere... I'm not fussy, I just don't want to be toyed with!
"check it out, you know it makes sense!" http://miaumau.blogspot.com/
I can understand that, but doing 5 minutes of research is enough to see that this place is fishy as hell.
They want people to move, but they want to have them keep freelance status. Which basically means they have no responsability whatsoever. They're not your employer, they're your client. Just imagine getting in an accident or getting sick whilst in Belgium.
The adress they gave is a businesscentre with a bunch of businesses located in it, all of which are listed on the website of the businesscentre. This 'studio' is nowhere to be found, meaning they either aren't located there or they just moved in. The domain from the emailadress sends you to a homepage of a 3D-scanning facility where you have to fill in a form with all your details to receive any sort of information.
Finally a websearch on the 'studio', the parent company or the contact don't result in as much as a single hit except for the jobpost on AWN. There's not a chance on earth that they have any sort of resume worth mentioning, and chances are slim they've been around for longer than a month.
I'd say chances of getting screwed by this place are 99%.
I can sympathise with wanting any kind of job; trust me, I've been there myself. But stepping into this kind of trap really shouldn't be an option.
Just curious, but what movies did this guy claim to have on his resume?
cheers,
~D
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy [i]-Tom Waits
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really really big movies like tomb raider
"check it out, you know it makes sense!" http://miaumau.blogspot.com/
Corus is in Canada, and they DO invest in international companies. I 'have' seen the name Corus Media before, but am not sure if it was in partnership with Corus that is here.
If you're really determined, I would contact Corus in Canada and just ask them if they are affiliated, but I do not believe so.
Corus
181 Bay Street, Suite 1630
Toronto, Ontario
M5J 2T3
Telephone: (416) 642-3770
Fax: (416) 642-3779
Erin ;)
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The only thing that is truly yours - that no one can take from you - is your attitude. So if you can take care of that, everything else in life becomes easier. ~unknown
There's always going to be unscrupulous idiots lurking around this industry.
Let's face it, ANYTHING to do with the entertainment business has a magnetic allure with anyone whose not involved in it. The Creeps know this, and can blithely use it to their advantage--because newcomers to the biz are often starstruck just being particpating in it.
Everyone can potentially be suckered at least once, I have been too. But if you are truly smart, once is all that happens. What nixes things for the con-men/creeps is simply askign around about them. Once word gets around, far and wide enough, they lose any advantage they thought they might have had.
This comes down to something simple: legit jobs will cover your moving costs up front. They will pay decent wages and provide a means for you to return if you have to move outside of your home city. if they ask that you work for free, hem and haw about what the job is about, are vague about what they want you to do or any other aspect of the job--then simply do not take the job.
--Ken
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Ugh - that's terrible that someone is abusing a valued resource like that.
It's not AWN's job to monitor postings militantly. But if there is an obvious case of abuse, and your can confirm the abuse, that then I would also give a heads up to AWN to get the ad taken down. So others won't get suckered as well.
It's not nice to scam people, unfortunatly I'm finding that too many employers want you to do the work for free these days. I've been in contact with people who put up these wonderful ads for animation work - but when you get down to discussing payment they stop talking to you.
"What? You mean you expect to be paid for this work?! Phhhpttfht! You should be proud that we even give you the time of day! Begone with you! there are hundreds of other sorry suckers out there willing to do our work for free."
May favorite is after they get done listing all the impossible to meet requirements and whatnot for the job in the bottom lines they say "We are a small (sometimes start-up) company and we don't have a lot of money. We will TRY to compinsate you fairly" (yes I have seen that in ads) ... or my other favorite is when they want a very high end, mega-experience loaded animator and they say... "We don't have any money to pay you, this would be an excellent project for your portfolio ..." I've grown to not trust just about everyone.
Tuam libera mentem - Free your mind
Why do customers feel craftspeople/artisans should not get fair compensation for their labor? I make stained glass pieces to sell retail and though people love the work, many are not prepared to pay the price I 'need' to ask for them (materials, labor, a SMALL profit). These are rhetorical questions, because I know the arguments about selling art-to some it's not a life necessity, it's a hobby for the artist-so any type of barter/exchange will be acceptable, or, making art is not labor at all. :confused: