I've read/browsed through this entire thread. I found a lot of helpful information, but also, began to have more questions then answers.
I am a highschool student, and know I appear immature to the many older/wiser people here, however, I would appreciate any help, and I will listen.
I am a student at a math and science school in one if the poorer regions of the united states. I have loved stories, movies, anime, writing, drawing, and animation for eternity (well before birth ;) ) My father is a computer tech. teacher, and as well used to be a artist (drew cars and trucks...real awsome stuff). So my interest grew. Now I'm approaching the end of my highschool session/career, and wanting to go into the field of animation.
I've looked at SCAD, never heard of Ringling but I'm looking into it now, however, sadly money is always an issue, as well as distance. I'm wanting to find a great school to teach me drawing, story telling, animation, the things you need to know in the south eastern region.
As well, if anyone can help to reccomend a site/place, to find schoalrship information, it would be well appreciated.
I have done research, make no mistake, I use fastweb, and school websites, books, charts, magazines, brocheres. But I'm naiive:( , so everything seems to be "the best and greatest" and that's normally all I really get, even talking to representatives.
So any help in this matter would be fantastic!:D
Also on a side note to (Mr.) Larry, you said it might be better to take core classes at a community college? Just for examples sake, reading through SCAD'S program/class description the core classes sound like the offer more at SCAD than the would at a community college. Which makes it seem that if you did take the cheaper route and take classes at a C.C. then you'd miss out on things, and be behind students that have taken the core classes at SCAD.
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If you find you have other helpful information, I'd be glad to hear it~ :)
—
Tessa Palfreyman
Student of: MSMS palf007@msms.k12.ms.us
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You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
Taking Liberal Arts classes at a community college is MUCH more cost-effective
than taking them at a private art school. Just make sure the credit will transfer
before you enroll.
The down side of that would be missing out on the connectivity that taking
art-specific LA classes can provide to your education. Some of the private
schools have worked hard to build connections from the Liberal Arts to your
major.
I realise from reading through the thread that SCAD dosen't keep statistics on job placement. That said what does the college do to help you find a job. Someone said something about being visited by studios. What exactly does that involve? Do they interview students or do they give a presentation?
Hi Mechanical Pencil....it depends on what the studios are looking for. If they have no hiring needs the tendency is to simply present current work...a kind of interesting dog and pony show about the latest production...sometimes they show examples of categories for hiring: technical director, rigger, etc. If they have hiring needs, they'll pull in the portfolios of (whatever they're looking for lighters, story, modelers, animators, etc.) Students are usually seniors, though some studios pull in the work of juniors to see if there are particularly talented students coming up...(or maybe to offer them internships if there are any available.) It differs from one place to the next but the recruitment process is very aggressive since the success of the studio is dependent on talent, new blood, etc.. Schools differ on how involved they are with recruitment/ a good school will have one very active person, (or team) who tracks the graduates, keeps a good relationship with studios, and generally is pro-active about placement. One of the things to check out about a school, if you're shopping is where the graduates go....how involved the school is with the recruitment process, all of these things are useful to know before you take on the expense of schooling. You might also go to Siggraph in Boston, (end of July this year) and visit the various booths of the schools, getting dvd material, recruitment stuff, talk to those representing the school. You might want to be pro-active on your own behalf. Thanks
Thanks dsg. I am already signed up as a student volunteer at SIGGRAPH. I actually just completed an associate in multimedia/web design. I want to work as an animator though so I am thinking about going back to school. I just want to make sure that the school that I go to has a good chance of placing me in a job. My last school's guaranteed career placement assistance was proofreading my resume and handing me a 2 page list of job listing web sites. It was helpful but not what I expected. I am particularly interested in SCAD because there site mentioned a rolling admission policy. I can wait until next year but I would rather not. I just want to be sure that they do have a person that is pro-active with placing students. From reading through the thread I am under the impression that SCAD accepts more people than it should to give more people an opportunity and in the end the best get jobs. It makes sense given that philosophy that people would avoid answering questions about job placement. I would really like to know if the best people are getting there jobs through the school or through events like SIGGRAPH.
When you say "and in the end the best get jobs" it is important to keep
in mind that it isn't the best in the class at your school. It is the best
from all of the classes at ALL of the schools that get those jobs. There
are far more animation graduates than there are entry-level positions at the studios.
Siggraph is a great place to network. Talking to recruiters at school lends
a certain degree of validity to your work. But it is only the quality of that
work that ends up getting you employed... even if you simply submitted
your demo through the mail and participated in none of these networking opportunities.
Yes Jim there are a lot more students then opportunities. That is why I am placing a lot of my decision on how active the school is in helping with initial job placement. I know that I could get a job by just sending out my demo reel and that schooling is not even a requirement but that doesn't seem like the best or easiest way to start a career in animation. If I go to a school that has an active placement person and recruiters visit the school than I know that the studios will look at my work. It just seems to me that this is a huge advantage over a person who just sent in a demo reel. I can imagine this huge pile or reels with a variety of levels of quality. Some things that I have read has lead me to believe that most of the pile is very awfully stuff. I am just getting the impression that just sending my reel in is a long shot compared to a good placement program. Am I exaggerating the difference? It just seems to me that in such a competitive field even small advantages will make a big difference.
Jim you had some impressive statistics on Ringlings program. The students are obviously excellent. Someone also mentioned that the students meet with recruiters and that the faculty is very active in showing the students work to people. It just seems to me that that would be the difference between having a job lined up before you graduate and getting one a little while after you graduate. What do you think?
[quote=Jim]When you say "and in the end the best get jobs" it is important to keep
in mind that it isn't the best in the class at your school. It is the best
from all of the classes at ALL of the schools that get those jobs. (quote)
Hey Jim...I heard one of your seniors just won the student academy award...congratulations to you and your faculty!!!
Yo Mechanical Pencil...since you seem to be looking around at schools as a scad grad I can give you my perspective by saying there is an excellent department that works with you giving you updates on any job openings. Recruiters do come to SCAD generally interviewing students with the best demo reels as well. My last year at scad I was fortunate to have many options waiting for me and got to as I say "practice and perfect" my interviewing skills with the sheer amount of companies that were visiting and looking for talent.
Not selling you on anything...just giving you the perspective of a humble alumni. Do keep in mind that interviews are usually only given to students with worthy demo reels...you are competing with all the other best students from other schools as the recruiters tend to visit multiple schools at a time.
Hey Jim...I heard one of your seniors just won the student academy award...congratulations to you and your faculty!!!
Thanks! That was Meng Vue, he won the Silver Award. The Gold was taken
by a student at CalArts, and the Bronze by a student from BYU.
Mechanical Pencil- I definitely agree that a great Career Services department
is crucial to your success. Any school with a good one should be able to
provide evidence of where their grads are working... make sure to ask
about the stats. Recruiters coming to campus is a huge advantage. DSG is
correct that this is most effective when the faculty have a long-standing,
trusted relationship with them. When you "interview" schools you are
considering attending, ask for a list of the recruiters that visited campus
for that year. You want the most current list.
Thanks everyone.
Thanks Rob, I was looking for an alumni's opinion.
Its time for me to start contacting admissions officers. I will definitely take your suggestion Jim and ask for specific information like a list of recruiters that visited the campus and what kind of awards the students are getting.
Congratulations to Jim your faculty and epically Meng Vue for a student academy award.
Interesting thread. My choice for a school was California State University, Fullerton since it is close to where and I live and it does not cost an arm and a leg. I have toured the school and was quite impressed with the faculty and the facilities. Though most of the program is 2D based they do ofter classes on 3D animation in the department of Rigging, Modeling, Texturing, and Animation. I am going to be doing this alongside Animation Mentor to give a firm grasp of the art of Character Animation. Also the school as many connects with the local 2D animation studios like Film Roman, Nickelodeon, and Klasky Csupo, as well as Disney. I can't wait to start in the Fall.
Rock on! The more 2D people the better, I always say.
What made you decide on also doing AM?
I decided to do animation mentor because of its focus on the art of Character Animation like acting, body mechanics, and short film developement. And I can do all this online. Looking at the demo reels of the students at CSUF I saw many had excellent drawing skills for figure drawing, background painting, storyboarding, and character design. Good think about the program is that it requires alot of traditional drawing skills to make it through the program and some of the work done in the upper division figure drawing classes are nothing short of amazing. The faculty work was impressive too. Though the program doesn't require a portfolio to get in you must pass 3D Design, 2D Design, Beg Drawing, and Beg Painting with at least a B average.
EDIT: I am also majoring in Computer Science as well.
Does anyone have any insight on Vancouver Film School VS Sheridan College in Computer Animation diplomas?
Which tends to provide a better education? I understand that the demo reel is what matters most in the end but the quality of instructors and the curriculum are also fairly important.
I've already gotten into VFS but it seems that almost anyone does...
Any insight or personal experience on either school would be greatly appreciated. I am looking to start next summer/fall of 2007.
Hello everyone, I was wondering if anyone can give me any information on how to enroll in the Disney college training program? I read an article on AWN about it but I can't find any info online on how to apply! ^^;
Okay, let me start by saying I am a 3D animation teacher at Smoky Hill High School in the Denver, Colorado area – Digital-Evolutions http://www.digital-evolutions.org/ . I teach 5 classes a semester – one in graphics and the others in 3D using Maya. I read just about all 20 pages in this thread . . . okay I skimmed a few.
Students are always asking what school to go to and I want to point them in the right direction . . .
In general, it seems everyone wants to work at Pixar / Hollywood or game design. What kind of percentages of students shoot for Hollywood jobs and end up in a non-Hollywood field? Most? How flooded is the “Hollywood” animation job market? I was told by someone that less than 6% of all animation jobs are for Hollywood and game design and most sought after.
Are the schools preparing students for all career options? There seems to be animation schools popping up all over the place, promising Hollywood and luring them in just to make a buck. But, are they really getting them ready for the job market?
What about students who are highly technical – rendering, compositing, dynamics, rigging, etc, who might not be as artistic in the traditional sense and do not have traditional portfolio elements . . . where do they go to school?
I am preparing for the up-and-coming school year . . .Thanks all . . .
In general, it seems everyone wants to work at Pixar / Hollywood or game design. What kind of percentages of students shoot for Hollywood jobs and end up in a non-Hollywood field? Most? How flooded is the “Hollywood” animation job market? I was told by someone that less than 6% of all animation jobs are for Hollywood and game design and most sought after.
That's an interesting Stat but here's what we need to keep in mind. Most of the global CGI industry (the other 94%) model themselves after Hollywood. (Some are just a few years behind.) So you will find very similar job requirements.
Ambition to work for the famous shops is never a bad thing. Perhaps not realistic as your stat points out but as long as they come close they should be able to discover an alternate rewarding career in the process.
Are the schools preparing students for all career options? There seems to be animation schools popping up all over the place, promising Hollywood and luring them in just to make a buck. But, are they really getting them ready for the job market?
Hah! Yeah, they are pretty pushy with their sales...
And of course all the schools have their pros and cons... From my experience mentoring at VFS I noticed the bell curve where you had the class superstars that would have made it wherever they wanted to go with or without the formal training, the middle that had a good chance of picking up a job in the other 94% of the industry and the bottom of the bell curve that was swept under a rug. I can’t speak for any of the other major training centers but I would imagine they were very similar.
What about students who are highly technical – rendering, compositing, dynamics, rigging, etc, who might not be as artistic in the traditional sense and do not have traditional portfolio elements . . . where do they go to school?
Currently just being highly technical will not get you as far as one would hope. For the most part, Studios seek people with highly active left and right brain ability. (“Creative problem solving”) It seems that traditional North American education tells us that the two don’t mix so there is a solid division of artistic and technical development. I recommend that the highly technical students are encouraged to develop their artistic abilities and vice versa for the artist non-technical types.
That said, when hiring at Lost Boys Studios, I didn’t expect my artists to be masters of traditional art… Artistic ability can be seen in their demo reels without having to see their traditional portfolios. I was more interested in seeing that they had that left/right synergy.
Perhaps some of the more technical students that really have an itch for animation but really don’t see themselves in the role of an artist would be more interested in heading towards computer science and working on the programming side instead. Being exposed to the process would give them valuable insight to where the technology needs improvement.
Hey Guys,
Im a newbie here, actually Ive been lurking for awhile. Anyways Im planning on attending Full Sail, here in Winter Park, Fl. Was just wondering if theres anyone that has had experiences with this school? Im taking the Behind the Scenes tour Aug 13, waaaay excited about that. Oh btw, Ive checked out alot of your galleries and want to say ya'll are awesome...youve intimidated me and inspired me all at once. Im sketching better than I ever have, thanks. :D
The end decision always has to be if you feel it's going to work out for you. Do know ahead of time, that most people won't have a high opinion of the practical usability of Full Sail, and those that do would rather die than let go of their opinions and the support of them. Those are the two major personalities you'll have to deal with.
Why dont people have a high opinion on their practical usability? I would love to hear all opinions on this school, good and bad. Ive not heard much about this school, other than from the website, and the person i talked to on the phone. He made it sound awesome. I know the school looks like what Im looking for, but I really am worried about making the wrong decision.
I've read a lot of reviews and opinions about schools on the east. Especially Ringling and SCAD. But i would like to know about the ones on the west. I am cosidering Cal Arts and AAU. I've read good and bad things about them. But there doesn't seem to be anything better out there at the graduate level.
Need advice.
I just got some information on the DAVE school. It looks kind of interesting, what do you all think of this school? Im trying to get as much info on different schools as possible, and as many opinions as possible as well.
wanted to know two things:
1. Is cal arts as good as it used to be (grad program in exp animation)?
2. Approximately how much does it cost to study there - tuition, housing, material, etc?
wanted to know two things:
1. Is cal arts as good as it used to be (grad program in exp animation)?
2. Approximately how much does it cost to study there - tuition, housing, material, etc?
thanks
I'm in the same boat. Looking for a decent trad animation (or trad animation heavy) program.
I've been calarts on an open day. It looks, to be honest, exactly what i am looking for. However, it is very expensive. So, any alternatives or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. It doesn't hurt to have options after all!
Thanks Rich.
I read that with Gobelins, you have to show a reel of professional-caliber work just to get in. Not that it isn't a good school; it's undisputed for most people. Just don't think "I'm a schmuck" compared to that when the circumstances for most people are pretty disparate.
Of course Gobelins wants the best folks it can find- wouldn't you?
They are looking for the best artists they can find!!!!
I've seen their work and toured their school- other schools have better facilities- but they don't teach art and animation the way Gobelins does.
Oh and this year the tuition fees are going up to $2,500.00 - a year - that's less than a quarter at most other school in the U.S. So for the price of one quarter here one could do the entire course in Paris.
Can you speak in generalities as far as how their teaching is distinct? Do they change exercises that aren't found conventionally at other schools? Is it the critical nature of select instructors? The cumulative build-up of work?
Anything that comes close to finding out what makes them tick would fascinate me.
When I was at Edinboro *psychosomatic shudders* I heard talk that in Master's programs they have you trace over existing animation to help understand why they made the movement choices they did, and get a better feel for mechanics and such...things like that, I'm wondering if they do...
I read that with Gobelins, you have to show a reel of professional-caliber work just to get in. Not that it isn't a good school; it's undisputed for most people. Just don't think "I'm a schmuck" compared to that when the circumstances for most people are pretty disparate.
Actually, my secret wish is that every school held to that kind of policy. It would dramatically increase the success rate of the students, make better use of the curriculum and instructors times, as well as the student's time and effort. The one's that are closest to the goal are often the easiest to help get there.
Something like that would cut down enormously on the number of schools, and would actually help more talented people enter the industry alot quicker.
—
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
But IT institutes are cropping up all over place and even here at AWN there is feeling that basics can be scrapped.
I got stuck in one of those short term type things when I was going through rehab. I taught myself. They stick you behind a terminal with a book and you work through the exercises. My instructor had never even heard of Flash, and by that time it was in version 4.
I wish I was young enough to be going the university route again. I wouldn't be looking for shortcuts.
I did a search on Edinboro University to see if any former students were using the AWN Forum. I see some of the folks here attended and some may be planning to attend. I was not quite sure which thread to post this, so I guess here is as good of a place as any. Here is my two cents on Animation at Edinboro...
From 1984 to 1986 I attended 3 semesters at EUP successfully completing the following pertinent courses: Animation 1 & 2, Drawing 1 & 2, 2D Design, and 16mm Film 1 & 2. Prior to attending EUP, between the ages of 15 and 17, I completed a hand drawn animated film shot on Super 8. That film lasted approximately 90 seconds and had been the center piece of my portfolio .
The animation program at EUP was smaller in the mid 80s than it is now, I'm certain, and computer animation was not being taught then, as you probably figured. The required textbook for the course was “The Animation Book” by Kit Laybourne (1979). That book, and “The Shoestring Animator”, by Byron Grush (1981), had been instrumental in teaching me how to complete the project I'd made in high school. Even though much of what was taught in Animation 1 & 2 at EUP were things I'd already accomplished there were some differences. For one, I could draw better and produced better work and for the first time had the chance to use professional equipment. But the biggest difference was the atmosphere of the place. Just being around a few other like minded individuals was inspiring. No longer was I the lone wolf laboring over my home made light table in relative obscurity. Instead there were people “in the know”, so to speak, with whom I had some wonderful and educating experiences.
Although I dropped out before getting into the advanced classes where I would have learned more, I was able to see the projects of more advanced students. Let me tell ya about one of these fellas...
Bill Waldman was a few years ahead of me in the program and was certainly setting a standard of excellence. For one semester, if I recall, Bill lived in the same dorm as me, Rose Hall. I remember visiting him while he was working on his film. He had come up with an ingenious technique to study human motion. He found a child's toy that played a Super 8 film that was powered by a hand crank. You only had to point the toy towards a light to view the film. Waldman had taken this toy apart and inserted some footage he had shot on Super 8 of various physical actions. He would use the hand crank forwards and backwards to study the various motions he would later exaggerate when animating his characters. I also got to see some of the pencil tests Waldman had shot and was floored by their quality. It was no surprise that he went on to become a key animator for Disney Studios.
Dave Weinkauf was and is, as far as I know, the Professor of the Film Dept. at EUP. When I attended Weinkauf was making a Documentary on the now late Chuck Jones. In class he showed us some of that work in progress, some of the interviews he had shot. Chuck Jones would later visit EUP to lecture and, wouldn't you know it, it was the semester I skipped! Mr. Jones, as I was told, took the fee he was paid for the lecture and art exhibit and donated it to the animation department. New and better equipment was purchased with the donation.
Weinkauf was also in personal contact with other industry professionals, the name Don Bluth comes to mind. Weinkauf had arranged for Bill Waldman's work to be personally viewed and critiqued by Bluth. And once when I asked how to get my hands on a print of a little known 1969 animated film staring Pogo, by the late Walt Kelly, Weinkauf said, “Oh, that reminds me, I have to call Selby.” Selby, an animator, was also the late Kelly's wife, by the way. At any rate, there were few prints of the film in existence and not only was I surprised when Weinkauf knew of that film, but was intrigued that he had been working to get a print of it for Selby Kelly.
I mention this because in some of the chat here I've noticed people wanting to attend an animation school were the instructors have contact with industry professionals. In the mid 1980s people like Chuck Jones and Don Bluth were, to me at age 18, god-like creatures living on some ethereal plain. Having a professor who knew these people personally only told me I was in the right place.
I know little about the current state of the Animation Program at EUP, but a quick search on Google turns up a bevy of information on what graduates of that program have gone on to accomplish. Ultimately, a degree in animation won't get you a job with a big studio anymore than getting a degree in English Literature will make you a best selling novelist. The ability to produce quality work is what gets you ahead, but you all already know that.
As for me, after I left EUP 20 years ago my life took many a twist and turn, none of it having a thing to do with Film or Animation. I will say that a lot of booze and a few women were involved, but I'll spare ya'll the details. While my back was turned, though, the industry sure changed! There are now more markets than ever, more opportunities than ever, and the advent of computer animation has revolutionized the business! Forgive me for babbling now, I've been away from this for a bit. :rolleyes:
Currently I'm back to animating on a hobby level, powered by my PC, Wacom Tablet, Toon Boom Express, Moho, and Animation Master. Truth is, I'm just piddling with it. I do have a few ideas that, with my skill level, I'll be able to pull off. Thanks all, and thank you for this forum!
Sincerely,
AllenC
P.S. Almost forgot, the weather at EUP...yup, there is a lot of snow in the Winter...and a lot of mud in the Spring. I liked the area so much, though, that over the past two decades I moved back twice. Having lived and worked in South Florida, South Texas, Washington DC and the Pacific Northwest, I'm now back in a small town not far from Edinboro. Peace Out!
I've been reading through these posts and was disheartened to see the only time my school (Columbia College Chicago) came up was when someone was unsatisfied with the program. I can say I was also unsure at first about the school, but then I started learning many of the things others have been saying on this forum. It's all about how much effort you put into your work. There are a handful of kids in the department that only do the animation assignments when they're given, like they're just homework to get out of the way so they can go to a bar or something.
Yet, there are others that really take it seriously and clearly want to make something of themselves. I've seen some pretty impressive work in the three years I've been here and my own work has improved tenfold. We have teachers here very well connected to the industry and there's some unbelievable talent brewing from them. The animation program here has a strong emphasis on figure drawing and composition, and they actually get into the nitty gritty of HOW TO ANIMATE WELL.
I wanted to make a positive plug for Columbia College in Chicago. You can most certainly get what you want at this school. The facilities are state-of-the-art, the teachers are above and beyond great, the other animators have beome my closest group of friends, and you can learn nearly anything you need to know about the industry. Plus, we get visitations from studios all the time; Nickelodeon and Midway to name a few.
I want to state how the way to really take advantage of this school is to WANT IT. Columbia is really about self-motivation. If your drive is strong enough and your excitement is high enough, then the facilities and teachers will be waiting to take you seriously. I mean that. A good number of my friends who graduated in May have already found work. Legitimate animation work. I talked to a grad EARLIER TODAY who was just offered an animation test for an LA studio.
Columbia is a bit of an enigma of a school, but from what I read about Ringling and SCAD especially, it's not that different at all.
I want to state how the way to really take advantage of this school is to WANT IT.
This is true of pretty much any art school. There are always students who go above and beyond (and their work shows it), and students who do the minimum. When the latter graduate and can't find a job due to a weak portfolio, they sometimes lash out at the school that trained them.
Does Columbia have a portfolio requirement for admission? A lot of times that makes a difference too. If the school accepts students with little or no art education/experience, it has a major impact on things like placement figures down the road.
Columbia is not picky when it comes to freshman animators, yet I have witnessed countless people with little art experience drop out within the first or second year. It feels like those who aren't up to the challenge don't even make it half way through.
Usually the talent of the student is in direct proportion to the amount of time they spend at Columbia. (Not to say there haven't been students who've improved drastically over their four years, that happens too)
I realize this may sound silly/stupid etc. However I would be greatful for some answers.
First is that my dream is to become an animator, however, my parents don't support it. My friends and my parents say if I trully want to do that I should go through graphic design first. That is what I am currently planning, because I might get a job faster with G.D. because its a more (whats the word...) spread out field. Do you guys thinkthis is a good idea, or should I go straight into the animation degree?
Also, I was wondering if I could get some imput on what you think of some schools as far as graphic design...I realize that SCAD and RSAD are great schools, so obviously I shant list them, because I know from here and elsewhere their reputation. However do any of you know any thing about:
I am from Mississippi so all info I find on MSU is always skewed to it, and most information I try to find on out of state colleges is skewed as well (by parents, counslers etc) because of the want to have students (child) attend in state.
I realize this is possibly a lame question for most, but I would find it helpful for any input at all.
(also...what are most colleges view on extracurricular (like clubs)....i get diff. information on the number they find appealing or not...)
Please and Thank you~:)
—
Tessa Palfreyman
Student of: MSMS palf007@msms.k12.ms.us
----------------------------------
You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
When I visited Ringling I saw from the student work there two reasons to go: Illustration and graphic design. That's not to knock other departments, but what I saw from those two was really exceptional...as in....literally an exception to what is normally seen, in a "What's in the water!?" kind of way.
Now I'm at Flagler and student-work wise there's some pretty hot stuff at the galleries...I don't know how they fare when they're out in the real world (except in nearby markets like Jacksonville which they all but own because of actually active placement opportunities they set up). What I do know is that one of their new guys is an import from SCAD and the intentions they have are very good. They are very adamant about making the preparations for you to know how to conduct yourself in the real world. There's lots of work done on public speaking, networking, time management and organization, best practices for work, etc....basically anything non-creative that's going to help you out. As far as creative stuff it looks like there's a good balance struck between knowing classical ideals but implementing them upon the latest trends.
I'd check it out, hit them up with questions, ask to see what they've done or where they've gone. I definitely think so far there's a shot you'll like what you find out.
Graphic design is not necessarily a prerequisite to animation. GD major don't even necessarily draw - they bring together elements that look good in advertisements, product packaging, etc. Illustration skills are not necessary to be a good graphic designer (I know; I've worked with tons of GDs who couldn't draw a lick). Graphic illustration, OTOH, is more aligned with animation, as it involves actually creating imagery, versus designing pleasing packaging/ads/spots. Hope that makes sense.
If you're going to pursue something that will lay solid groundwork for animation, then filmmaking is the way to go, although I can't imagine that being much more palletable to your parents than animation.
Well guys this is a great thred to get help, so thought to put my dilama here too. And for a note I dont have any art education background, mostly I am self-tought and learnt from my current class.
I have already completed my BEngg in Computer science (2004). And after doing a job for more than a year (graphics design and programming) I am firm that I want to go for animation. It's my hobby since college time and fascination since my childhood. I had applied to MFA animation courses, but for SCAD I was told that I need more stuff in my portfolio. For Rochester Inst of Tech I was told that seats were filled, so am on waitlist for next fall.
Now here is the deal I already missed this fall (I am an international student, from India). And I want to start learning animation as soon as possible, I really am eager to start something. So I left my job and joined the only short course (6 months) available here. I am learning drawing and anatomy stuff to add more to my portfolio for MFA at SCAd. Now, I have also been accepted to BFA animation of scad as transfer student and offered 10K$ scholership for my portfolio. I am targetting SCAD Spring term, and resending portfolio with some 3d animation and more drawings for MFA. But in case I dont get in MFA, should I go for BFA without wasting more time? What's the feeling about doing 2 bachelor degrees in general? does it really matter if I do BFA or MFA? Only thing is BFA has some general art classes, I know they are part of it, but I want to be more and all the time focused on animation, like drawing stuff. I have also looked for some of the courses being offered in small schools or institues which solely teach animaiton for 2 years or so. But I am really confused in the following questions...
-What course or degree should I go for?? I have already studied bachelor for 4 years. I feel around 2 years is really confortable.
Here are my requirements,
I want to learn both 2d/3d animation,
I want to start as soon as possible so may be I cant wait till next fall,
Finance is a little issue, not that big may be, but still it is.
I may compromise the degree or level with good reasons...
Can you guys please help me?? I am struggeling to get out of this dilemma since a long long time. I want to start learning animation.
Understand that taking courses and properly learning the material is going to take time, and learning to do this stuff AT A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL can take even more time.
Just taking some courses will likely not be enough to place your skills at a professional level.
It will probably give you technical insight, but it might not give you artistic improvement.
The more time ( and more courses) you take the better the chances are you will have those needed skills and aptitudes at the end of that process.
Otherwise, you might be thinking its just a matter lof getting the info and going ahead. Its not that easy, simple or quick.
—
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Well ofcourse I need to rush. I am planning on animation study since last 2 years. The main issue is that we dont have any good art/animation institute here that will allow me to study till next fall. And if I have already got accepted to BFA for the next term why should I wait and spend my time here on small courses? I have been drawing and doing things since a long time, so I feel ready now and that's the thing which is making me to push myself more everyday.
If I wait till next fall, after my short classes are over after 6 months I will have to manage something to wait till fall. And that time I afraid will not be utilized really. So I dont want to wait till next fall term. I agree with you on artistic skills, but what if I cant really improve on that here if I wait.
Even thugh I have mention that I am comfortable with 2 years of study, I dont mind studying more. I just want to START studying animation.
Besides my real dilemma is if going for BFA or MFA after my BE comp. science really matters for animation, or for that matter, any good diploma courses or certificate course?
A degree doesn't mean anything if your porfolio sucks. Don't rush it and make sure you hone your skills while in school. I would even recommend taking some classes twice(if your school allows it) to better your skills. I know I plan too take almost all my life drawing classes at twice just to better my skills.
If I wait till next fall, after my short classes are over after 6 months I will have to manage something to wait till fall. And that time I afraid will not be utilized really. So I dont want to wait till next fall term. I agree with you on artistic skills, but what if I cant really improve on that here if I wait.
I you cannot improve on that, then this will not be the career path for you--school will not help much more if you do not employ some self-exploration as well.
What mean by self-exploration is the fundermental skills: drawing, painting, story-structure, basic animation, back CGI software--there's loads of personal learning edition software out there, lots of books that can be ordered and shipped online. Literally tons of educational and training materials available that you can learn a great deal on your own, so that when your classes do start you have just that much more familliarity with the material.
If you've covered it before when you get to those classes, then consider it another practise session.
Schools are going to train you in tecnhologies and terchniques.........they will NOT give you much time to develop artistic skills. Without art skills, your efforts will likely be wasted.
—
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
You are very true. I agree with you. But I am sorry I made things a little confusing. I do work on my artistic skills, in terms of drawing and other stuff(like 3d etc.). I left my good software job (in oppose of my father) to fully work on art for that matter. So it's not that I am not doing art or dont want to do it in spare time. I already have learnt 3dsmax on my own, and planning a short animation too. Also I am drawing everyday regularly and studying gesture drawings, anatomy. But main issue is I dont really have much guidance/resources, I have to do trial and error to improve. That is my main concern and that is why I have not grown much in past 2 years. For that I need a school and ofcourse resources. Of course internet is a huge source, and I literaly have many good tutorials, but it's just not helping me much. Like when I try to follow the instructions, but get something wrong many times, I really cant figure out where did I go wrong, or how can I correct something. So that weakness stays for a time until I dont realize on my own of what I have done wrong.
And I am really desperate to go to next level and self-teaching is not working for me so well. And well my classes that I am working with are good as compared to have nothing. We dont have any life-drawing classes in here. So forget it. I do live sketching instead, but it's difficult to study anatomy through it. So I feel high need of quality resource and guidance to push myself to next level.
Yes degree doesnt matter if portfolio sucks. But what if portfolio does not suck? I feel it does not really matter, but still I would like to know what other feel.
I hope you understand what I am saying. And yes here is some of my work, may be that will help you understand me better. I am not really that good, but I am trying everyday to improve.
I've read/browsed through this entire thread. I found a lot of helpful information, but also, began to have more questions then answers.
I am a highschool student, and know I appear immature to the many older/wiser people here, however, I would appreciate any help, and I will listen.
I am a student at a math and science school in one if the poorer regions of the united states. I have loved stories, movies, anime, writing, drawing, and animation for eternity (well before birth ;) ) My father is a computer tech. teacher, and as well used to be a artist (drew cars and trucks...real awsome stuff). So my interest grew. Now I'm approaching the end of my highschool session/career, and wanting to go into the field of animation.
I've looked at SCAD, never heard of Ringling but I'm looking into it now, however, sadly money is always an issue, as well as distance. I'm wanting to find a great school to teach me drawing, story telling, animation, the things you need to know in the south eastern region.
As well, if anyone can help to reccomend a site/place, to find schoalrship information, it would be well appreciated.
I have done research, make no mistake, I use fastweb, and school websites, books, charts, magazines, brocheres. But I'm naiive:( , so everything seems to be "the best and greatest" and that's normally all I really get, even talking to representatives.
So any help in this matter would be fantastic!:D
Also on a side note to (Mr.) Larry, you said it might be better to take core classes at a community college? Just for examples sake, reading through SCAD'S program/class description the core classes sound like the offer more at SCAD than the would at a community college. Which makes it seem that if you did take the cheaper route and take classes at a C.C. then you'd miss out on things, and be behind students that have taken the core classes at SCAD.
-----
If you find you have other helpful information, I'd be glad to hear it~ :)
Tessa Palfreyman
Student of: MSMS
palf007@msms.k12.ms.us
----------------------------------
You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
--George Bernard Shaw
Taking Liberal Arts classes at a community college is MUCH more cost-effective
than taking them at a private art school. Just make sure the credit will transfer
before you enroll.
The down side of that would be missing out on the connectivity that taking
art-specific LA classes can provide to your education. Some of the private
schools have worked hard to build connections from the Liberal Arts to your
major.
Jim.
-------------
I realise from reading through the thread that SCAD dosen't keep statistics on job placement. That said what does the college do to help you find a job. Someone said something about being visited by studios. What exactly does that involve? Do they interview students or do they give a presentation?
Hi Mechanical Pencil....it depends on what the studios are looking for. If they have no hiring needs the tendency is to simply present current work...a kind of interesting dog and pony show about the latest production...sometimes they show examples of categories for hiring: technical director, rigger, etc. If they have hiring needs, they'll pull in the portfolios of (whatever they're looking for lighters, story, modelers, animators, etc.) Students are usually seniors, though some studios pull in the work of juniors to see if there are particularly talented students coming up...(or maybe to offer them internships if there are any available.) It differs from one place to the next but the recruitment process is very aggressive since the success of the studio is dependent on talent, new blood, etc.. Schools differ on how involved they are with recruitment/ a good school will have one very active person, (or team) who tracks the graduates, keeps a good relationship with studios, and generally is pro-active about placement. One of the things to check out about a school, if you're shopping is where the graduates go....how involved the school is with the recruitment process, all of these things are useful to know before you take on the expense of schooling. You might also go to Siggraph in Boston, (end of July this year) and visit the various booths of the schools, getting dvd material, recruitment stuff, talk to those representing the school. You might want to be pro-active on your own behalf. Thanks
For more in depth knowledge and sharping your skills you have to join many differnet platforms and learn many skills including SaaS Development, Mobile App Development, MVP Development, and more.
Hello and thanks for the list but are there any schools in Texas? If you get a chance let me know ok. Thank You!
Courtney
http://thecountryclub.us/movie/index.cfm?id=semperfi
http://www.thecountryclub.us/semperfi
http://www.bizbuzz.ws/recruit.cfm?ID=semperfi
https://thecountryclub.us/register/reg1.cfm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-320833234720839476
Thanks dsg. I am already signed up as a student volunteer at SIGGRAPH. I actually just completed an associate in multimedia/web design. I want to work as an animator though so I am thinking about going back to school. I just want to make sure that the school that I go to has a good chance of placing me in a job. My last school's guaranteed career placement assistance was proofreading my resume and handing me a 2 page list of job listing web sites. It was helpful but not what I expected. I am particularly interested in SCAD because there site mentioned a rolling admission policy. I can wait until next year but I would rather not. I just want to be sure that they do have a person that is pro-active with placing students. From reading through the thread I am under the impression that SCAD accepts more people than it should to give more people an opportunity and in the end the best get jobs. It makes sense given that philosophy that people would avoid answering questions about job placement. I would really like to know if the best people are getting there jobs through the school or through events like SIGGRAPH.
When you say "and in the end the best get jobs" it is important to keep
in mind that it isn't the best in the class at your school. It is the best
from all of the classes at ALL of the schools that get those jobs. There
are far more animation graduates than there are entry-level positions at the studios.
Siggraph is a great place to network. Talking to recruiters at school lends
a certain degree of validity to your work. But it is only the quality of that
work that ends up getting you employed... even if you simply submitted
your demo through the mail and participated in none of these networking opportunities.
Jim.
-----------
Yes Jim there are a lot more students then opportunities. That is why I am placing a lot of my decision on how active the school is in helping with initial job placement. I know that I could get a job by just sending out my demo reel and that schooling is not even a requirement but that doesn't seem like the best or easiest way to start a career in animation. If I go to a school that has an active placement person and recruiters visit the school than I know that the studios will look at my work. It just seems to me that this is a huge advantage over a person who just sent in a demo reel. I can imagine this huge pile or reels with a variety of levels of quality. Some things that I have read has lead me to believe that most of the pile is very awfully stuff. I am just getting the impression that just sending my reel in is a long shot compared to a good placement program. Am I exaggerating the difference? It just seems to me that in such a competitive field even small advantages will make a big difference.
Jim you had some impressive statistics on Ringlings program. The students are obviously excellent. Someone also mentioned that the students meet with recruiters and that the faculty is very active in showing the students work to people. It just seems to me that that would be the difference between having a job lined up before you graduate and getting one a little while after you graduate. What do you think?
[quote=Jim]When you say "and in the end the best get jobs" it is important to keep
in mind that it isn't the best in the class at your school. It is the best
from all of the classes at ALL of the schools that get those jobs. (quote)
Hey Jim...I heard one of your seniors just won the student academy award...congratulations to you and your faculty!!!
.....Oy. :o
Yo Mechanical Pencil...since you seem to be looking around at schools as a scad grad I can give you my perspective by saying there is an excellent department that works with you giving you updates on any job openings. Recruiters do come to SCAD generally interviewing students with the best demo reels as well. My last year at scad I was fortunate to have many options waiting for me and got to as I say "practice and perfect" my interviewing skills with the sheer amount of companies that were visiting and looking for talent.
Not selling you on anything...just giving you the perspective of a humble alumni. Do keep in mind that interviews are usually only given to students with worthy demo reels...you are competing with all the other best students from other schools as the recruiters tend to visit multiple schools at a time.
Good luck dude
www.robtmiller.com
Animator
Neversoft Entertainment
[URL=http://www.studiopendulum.com]
[/URL]
Thanks! That was Meng Vue, he won the Silver Award. The Gold was taken
by a student at CalArts, and the Bronze by a student from BYU.
Mechanical Pencil- I definitely agree that a great Career Services department
is crucial to your success. Any school with a good one should be able to
provide evidence of where their grads are working... make sure to ask
about the stats. Recruiters coming to campus is a huge advantage. DSG is
correct that this is most effective when the faculty have a long-standing,
trusted relationship with them. When you "interview" schools you are
considering attending, ask for a list of the recruiters that visited campus
for that year. You want the most current list.
Thanks,
Jim.
---------------
Thanks everyone.
Thanks Rob, I was looking for an alumni's opinion.
Its time for me to start contacting admissions officers. I will definitely take your suggestion Jim and ask for specific information like a list of recruiters that visited the campus and what kind of awards the students are getting.
Congratulations to Jim your faculty and epically Meng Vue for a student academy award.
Interesting thread. My choice for a school was California State University, Fullerton since it is close to where and I live and it does not cost an arm and a leg. I have toured the school and was quite impressed with the faculty and the facilities. Though most of the program is 2D based they do ofter classes on 3D animation in the department of Rigging, Modeling, Texturing, and Animation. I am going to be doing this alongside Animation Mentor to give a firm grasp of the art of Character Animation. Also the school as many connects with the local 2D animation studios like Film Roman, Nickelodeon, and Klasky Csupo, as well as Disney. I can't wait to start in the Fall.
Software: TVPaint Pro, Harmony Standalone, Storyboard Pro, Maya, Modo, Arnold, V-Ray, Maxwell, NukeX, Hiero, Mari, RealFlow, Avid, Adobe CS6
Hardware: (2) HP Z820 Workstations + 144-core Linux Render Farm + Cintiq 24HD Touch
Rock on! The more 2D people the better, I always say.
What made you decide on also doing AM?
I decided to do animation mentor because of its focus on the art of Character Animation like acting, body mechanics, and short film developement. And I can do all this online. Looking at the demo reels of the students at CSUF I saw many had excellent drawing skills for figure drawing, background painting, storyboarding, and character design. Good think about the program is that it requires alot of traditional drawing skills to make it through the program and some of the work done in the upper division figure drawing classes are nothing short of amazing. The faculty work was impressive too. Though the program doesn't require a portfolio to get in you must pass 3D Design, 2D Design, Beg Drawing, and Beg Painting with at least a B average.
EDIT: I am also majoring in Computer Science as well.
Software: TVPaint Pro, Harmony Standalone, Storyboard Pro, Maya, Modo, Arnold, V-Ray, Maxwell, NukeX, Hiero, Mari, RealFlow, Avid, Adobe CS6
Hardware: (2) HP Z820 Workstations + 144-core Linux Render Farm + Cintiq 24HD Touch
Does anyone have any insight on Vancouver Film School VS Sheridan College in Computer Animation diplomas?
Which tends to provide a better education? I understand that the demo reel is what matters most in the end but the quality of instructors and the curriculum are also fairly important.
I've already gotten into VFS but it seems that almost anyone does...
Any insight or personal experience on either school would be greatly appreciated. I am looking to start next summer/fall of 2007.
Hello everyone, I was wondering if anyone can give me any information on how to enroll in the Disney college training program? I read an article on AWN about it but I can't find any info online on how to apply! ^^;
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What an interesting thread . . .
Okay, let me start by saying I am a 3D animation teacher at Smoky Hill High School in the Denver, Colorado area – Digital-Evolutions http://www.digital-evolutions.org/ . I teach 5 classes a semester – one in graphics and the others in 3D using Maya. I read just about all 20 pages in this thread . . . okay I skimmed a few.
Students are always asking what school to go to and I want to point them in the right direction . . .
In general, it seems everyone wants to work at Pixar / Hollywood or game design. What kind of percentages of students shoot for Hollywood jobs and end up in a non-Hollywood field? Most? How flooded is the “Hollywood” animation job market? I was told by someone that less than 6% of all animation jobs are for Hollywood and game design and most sought after.
Are the schools preparing students for all career options? There seems to be animation schools popping up all over the place, promising Hollywood and luring them in just to make a buck. But, are they really getting them ready for the job market?
What about students who are highly technical – rendering, compositing, dynamics, rigging, etc, who might not be as artistic in the traditional sense and do not have traditional portfolio elements . . . where do they go to school?
I am preparing for the up-and-coming school year . . .Thanks all . . .
Steely
http://www.digital-evolutions.org/
Hey Steely,
Good question.
That's an interesting Stat but here's what we need to keep in mind. Most of the global CGI industry (the other 94%) model themselves after Hollywood. (Some are just a few years behind.) So you will find very similar job requirements.
Ambition to work for the famous shops is never a bad thing. Perhaps not realistic as your stat points out but as long as they come close they should be able to discover an alternate rewarding career in the process.
Hah! Yeah, they are pretty pushy with their sales...
And of course all the schools have their pros and cons... From my experience mentoring at VFS I noticed the bell curve where you had the class superstars that would have made it wherever they wanted to go with or without the formal training, the middle that had a good chance of picking up a job in the other 94% of the industry and the bottom of the bell curve that was swept under a rug. I can’t speak for any of the other major training centers but I would imagine they were very similar.
Currently just being highly technical will not get you as far as one would hope. For the most part, Studios seek people with highly active left and right brain ability. (“Creative problem solving”) It seems that traditional North American education tells us that the two don’t mix so there is a solid division of artistic and technical development. I recommend that the highly technical students are encouraged to develop their artistic abilities and vice versa for the artist non-technical types.
That said, when hiring at Lost Boys Studios, I didn’t expect my artists to be masters of traditional art… Artistic ability can be seen in their demo reels without having to see their traditional portfolios. I was more interested in seeing that they had that left/right synergy.
Perhaps some of the more technical students that really have an itch for animation but really don’t see themselves in the role of an artist would be more interested in heading towards computer science and working on the programming side instead. Being exposed to the process would give them valuable insight to where the technology needs improvement.
Cheers,
M
Hey Guys,
Im a newbie here, actually Ive been lurking for awhile. Anyways Im planning on attending Full Sail, here in Winter Park, Fl. Was just wondering if theres anyone that has had experiences with this school? Im taking the Behind the Scenes tour Aug 13, waaaay excited about that. Oh btw, Ive checked out alot of your galleries and want to say ya'll are awesome...youve intimidated me and inspired me all at once. Im sketching better than I ever have, thanks. :D
The end decision always has to be if you feel it's going to work out for you. Do know ahead of time, that most people won't have a high opinion of the practical usability of Full Sail, and those that do would rather die than let go of their opinions and the support of them. Those are the two major personalities you'll have to deal with.
Why dont people have a high opinion on their practical usability? I would love to hear all opinions on this school, good and bad. Ive not heard much about this school, other than from the website, and the person i talked to on the phone. He made it sound awesome. I know the school looks like what Im looking for, but I really am worried about making the wrong decision.
hi,
I've read a lot of reviews and opinions about schools on the east. Especially Ringling and SCAD. But i would like to know about the ones on the west. I am cosidering Cal Arts and AAU. I've read good and bad things about them. But there doesn't seem to be anything better out there at the graduate level.
Need advice.
Russell
Russell, I sent you a private message...
I just got some information on the DAVE school. It looks kind of interesting, what do you all think of this school? Im trying to get as much info on different schools as possible, and as many opinions as possible as well.
wanted to know two things:
1. Is cal arts as good as it used to be (grad program in exp animation)?
2. Approximately how much does it cost to study there - tuition, housing, material, etc?
thanks
It's late now, but I'll be sending out PMs in the next two days. I didn't forget.
anyone know good sheridan is in comparison with the top schools in the US?
I'm in the same boat. Looking for a decent trad animation (or trad animation heavy) program.
I've been calarts on an open day. It looks, to be honest, exactly what i am looking for. However, it is very expensive. So, any alternatives or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. It doesn't hurt to have options after all!
Thanks Rich.
________________________________Perpetual Motion________________________________
I read that with Gobelins, you have to show a reel of professional-caliber work just to get in. Not that it isn't a good school; it's undisputed for most people. Just don't think "I'm a schmuck" compared to that when the circumstances for most people are pretty disparate.
Hello.
Of course Gobelins wants the best folks it can find- wouldn't you?
They are looking for the best artists they can find!!!!
I've seen their work and toured their school- other schools have better facilities- but they don't teach art and animation the way Gobelins does.
Oh and this year the tuition fees are going up to $2,500.00 - a year - that's less than a quarter at most other school in the U.S. So for the price of one quarter here one could do the entire course in Paris.
Pretty Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks.
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
[/U] email:
larry.lauria@gmail.com
Can you speak in generalities as far as how their teaching is distinct? Do they change exercises that aren't found conventionally at other schools? Is it the critical nature of select instructors? The cumulative build-up of work?
Anything that comes close to finding out what makes them tick would fascinate me.
When I was at Edinboro *psychosomatic shudders* I heard talk that in Master's programs they have you trace over existing animation to help understand why they made the movement choices they did, and get a better feel for mechanics and such...things like that, I'm wondering if they do...
Actually, my secret wish is that every school held to that kind of policy. It would dramatically increase the success rate of the students, make better use of the curriculum and instructors times, as well as the student's time and effort. The one's that are closest to the goal are often the easiest to help get there.
Something like that would cut down enormously on the number of schools, and would actually help more talented people enter the industry alot quicker.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
But IT institutes are cropping up all over place and even here at AWN there is feeling that basics can be scrapped.
I got stuck in one of those short term type things when I was going through rehab. I taught myself. They stick you behind a terminal with a book and you work through the exercises. My instructor had never even heard of Flash, and by that time it was in version 4.
I wish I was young enough to be going the university route again. I wouldn't be looking for shortcuts.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Hello All,
I did a search on Edinboro University to see if any former students were using the AWN Forum. I see some of the folks here attended and some may be planning to attend. I was not quite sure which thread to post this, so I guess here is as good of a place as any. Here is my two cents on Animation at Edinboro...
From 1984 to 1986 I attended 3 semesters at EUP successfully completing the following pertinent courses: Animation 1 & 2, Drawing 1 & 2, 2D Design, and 16mm Film 1 & 2. Prior to attending EUP, between the ages of 15 and 17, I completed a hand drawn animated film shot on Super 8. That film lasted approximately 90 seconds and had been the center piece of my portfolio .
The animation program at EUP was smaller in the mid 80s than it is now, I'm certain, and computer animation was not being taught then, as you probably figured. The required textbook for the course was “The Animation Book” by Kit Laybourne (1979). That book, and “The Shoestring Animator”, by Byron Grush (1981), had been instrumental in teaching me how to complete the project I'd made in high school. Even though much of what was taught in Animation 1 & 2 at EUP were things I'd already accomplished there were some differences. For one, I could draw better and produced better work and for the first time had the chance to use professional equipment. But the biggest difference was the atmosphere of the place. Just being around a few other like minded individuals was inspiring. No longer was I the lone wolf laboring over my home made light table in relative obscurity. Instead there were people “in the know”, so to speak, with whom I had some wonderful and educating experiences.
Although I dropped out before getting into the advanced classes where I would have learned more, I was able to see the projects of more advanced students. Let me tell ya about one of these fellas...
Bill Waldman was a few years ahead of me in the program and was certainly setting a standard of excellence. For one semester, if I recall, Bill lived in the same dorm as me, Rose Hall. I remember visiting him while he was working on his film. He had come up with an ingenious technique to study human motion. He found a child's toy that played a Super 8 film that was powered by a hand crank. You only had to point the toy towards a light to view the film. Waldman had taken this toy apart and inserted some footage he had shot on Super 8 of various physical actions. He would use the hand crank forwards and backwards to study the various motions he would later exaggerate when animating his characters. I also got to see some of the pencil tests Waldman had shot and was floored by their quality. It was no surprise that he went on to become a key animator for Disney Studios.
Dave Weinkauf was and is, as far as I know, the Professor of the Film Dept. at EUP. When I attended Weinkauf was making a Documentary on the now late Chuck Jones. In class he showed us some of that work in progress, some of the interviews he had shot. Chuck Jones would later visit EUP to lecture and, wouldn't you know it, it was the semester I skipped! Mr. Jones, as I was told, took the fee he was paid for the lecture and art exhibit and donated it to the animation department. New and better equipment was purchased with the donation.
Weinkauf was also in personal contact with other industry professionals, the name Don Bluth comes to mind. Weinkauf had arranged for Bill Waldman's work to be personally viewed and critiqued by Bluth. And once when I asked how to get my hands on a print of a little known 1969 animated film staring Pogo, by the late Walt Kelly, Weinkauf said, “Oh, that reminds me, I have to call Selby.” Selby, an animator, was also the late Kelly's wife, by the way. At any rate, there were few prints of the film in existence and not only was I surprised when Weinkauf knew of that film, but was intrigued that he had been working to get a print of it for Selby Kelly.
I mention this because in some of the chat here I've noticed people wanting to attend an animation school were the instructors have contact with industry professionals. In the mid 1980s people like Chuck Jones and Don Bluth were, to me at age 18, god-like creatures living on some ethereal plain. Having a professor who knew these people personally only told me I was in the right place.
I know little about the current state of the Animation Program at EUP, but a quick search on Google turns up a bevy of information on what graduates of that program have gone on to accomplish. Ultimately, a degree in animation won't get you a job with a big studio anymore than getting a degree in English Literature will make you a best selling novelist. The ability to produce quality work is what gets you ahead, but you all already know that.
As for me, after I left EUP 20 years ago my life took many a twist and turn, none of it having a thing to do with Film or Animation. I will say that a lot of booze and a few women were involved, but I'll spare ya'll the details. While my back was turned, though, the industry sure changed! There are now more markets than ever, more opportunities than ever, and the advent of computer animation has revolutionized the business! Forgive me for babbling now, I've been away from this for a bit. :rolleyes:
Currently I'm back to animating on a hobby level, powered by my PC, Wacom Tablet, Toon Boom Express, Moho, and Animation Master. Truth is, I'm just piddling with it. I do have a few ideas that, with my skill level, I'll be able to pull off. Thanks all, and thank you for this forum!
Sincerely,
AllenC
P.S. Almost forgot, the weather at EUP...yup, there is a lot of snow in the Winter...and a lot of mud in the Spring. I liked the area so much, though, that over the past two decades I moved back twice. Having lived and worked in South Florida, South Texas, Washington DC and the Pacific Northwest, I'm now back in a small town not far from Edinboro. Peace Out!
I've been reading through these posts and was disheartened to see the only time my school (Columbia College Chicago) came up was when someone was unsatisfied with the program. I can say I was also unsure at first about the school, but then I started learning many of the things others have been saying on this forum. It's all about how much effort you put into your work. There are a handful of kids in the department that only do the animation assignments when they're given, like they're just homework to get out of the way so they can go to a bar or something.
Yet, there are others that really take it seriously and clearly want to make something of themselves. I've seen some pretty impressive work in the three years I've been here and my own work has improved tenfold. We have teachers here very well connected to the industry and there's some unbelievable talent brewing from them. The animation program here has a strong emphasis on figure drawing and composition, and they actually get into the nitty gritty of HOW TO ANIMATE WELL.
I wanted to make a positive plug for Columbia College in Chicago. You can most certainly get what you want at this school. The facilities are state-of-the-art, the teachers are above and beyond great, the other animators have beome my closest group of friends, and you can learn nearly anything you need to know about the industry. Plus, we get visitations from studios all the time; Nickelodeon and Midway to name a few.
I want to state how the way to really take advantage of this school is to WANT IT. Columbia is really about self-motivation. If your drive is strong enough and your excitement is high enough, then the facilities and teachers will be waiting to take you seriously. I mean that. A good number of my friends who graduated in May have already found work. Legitimate animation work. I talked to a grad EARLIER TODAY who was just offered an animation test for an LA studio.
Columbia is a bit of an enigma of a school, but from what I read about Ringling and SCAD especially, it's not that different at all.
Until Next Time.
GreyHammer
http://thegreatredhope.blogspot.com/
This is true of pretty much any art school. There are always students who go above and beyond (and their work shows it), and students who do the minimum. When the latter graduate and can't find a job due to a weak portfolio, they sometimes lash out at the school that trained them.
Does Columbia have a portfolio requirement for admission? A lot of times that makes a difference too. If the school accepts students with little or no art education/experience, it has a major impact on things like placement figures down the road.
Columbia is not picky when it comes to freshman animators, yet I have witnessed countless people with little art experience drop out within the first or second year. It feels like those who aren't up to the challenge don't even make it half way through.
Usually the talent of the student is in direct proportion to the amount of time they spend at Columbia. (Not to say there haven't been students who've improved drastically over their four years, that happens too)
Until Next Time.
GreyHammer
http://thegreatredhope.blogspot.com/
I realize this may sound silly/stupid etc. However I would be greatful for some answers.
First is that my dream is to become an animator, however, my parents don't support it. My friends and my parents say if I trully want to do that I should go through graphic design first. That is what I am currently planning, because I might get a job faster with G.D. because its a more (whats the word...) spread out field. Do you guys thinkthis is a good idea, or should I go straight into the animation degree?
Also, I was wondering if I could get some imput on what you think of some schools as far as graphic design...I realize that SCAD and RSAD are great schools, so obviously I shant list them, because I know from here and elsewhere their reputation. However do any of you know any thing about:
Campbell University: Bluies Creek, NC: http://www.campbell.edu/
Flager College: St. Augustine, FL: http://www.flagler.edu/
University of Tampa: Tampa, FL: http://www.utampa.edu/
Illinois Institute of Art-Chicago: Chicago, IL: http://www.ilic.artinstitutes.edu/
DePaul University: Chicago, Il: http://www.depaul.edu/
Cleveland Institute of Art: Cleveland, OH: http://www.cia.edu/
Art Institute of Pittsburgh: http://www.aip.artinstitutes.edu
International Academy of Design & Technology and the Toronto Film School: Toronto, Canada: www.iaod.com
Atlanta College of Art: GA: www.aca.edu
Art Institute of Atlanta: GA: www.aia.artinstitutes.edu
Mississippi State University: www.msstate.edu
York University, Toronto, Canada: www.yorku.ca
I am from Mississippi so all info I find on MSU is always skewed to it, and most information I try to find on out of state colleges is skewed as well (by parents, counslers etc) because of the want to have students (child) attend in state.
I realize this is possibly a lame question for most, but I would find it helpful for any input at all.
(also...what are most colleges view on extracurricular (like clubs)....i get diff. information on the number they find appealing or not...)
Please and Thank you~:)
Tessa Palfreyman
Student of: MSMS
palf007@msms.k12.ms.us
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You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
--George Bernard Shaw
When I visited Ringling I saw from the student work there two reasons to go: Illustration and graphic design. That's not to knock other departments, but what I saw from those two was really exceptional...as in....literally an exception to what is normally seen, in a "What's in the water!?" kind of way.
Now I'm at Flagler and student-work wise there's some pretty hot stuff at the galleries...I don't know how they fare when they're out in the real world (except in nearby markets like Jacksonville which they all but own because of actually active placement opportunities they set up). What I do know is that one of their new guys is an import from SCAD and the intentions they have are very good. They are very adamant about making the preparations for you to know how to conduct yourself in the real world. There's lots of work done on public speaking, networking, time management and organization, best practices for work, etc....basically anything non-creative that's going to help you out. As far as creative stuff it looks like there's a good balance struck between knowing classical ideals but implementing them upon the latest trends.
I'd check it out, hit them up with questions, ask to see what they've done or where they've gone. I definitely think so far there's a shot you'll like what you find out.
Graphic design is not necessarily a prerequisite to animation. GD major don't even necessarily draw - they bring together elements that look good in advertisements, product packaging, etc. Illustration skills are not necessary to be a good graphic designer (I know; I've worked with tons of GDs who couldn't draw a lick). Graphic illustration, OTOH, is more aligned with animation, as it involves actually creating imagery, versus designing pleasing packaging/ads/spots. Hope that makes sense.
If you're going to pursue something that will lay solid groundwork for animation, then filmmaking is the way to go, although I can't imagine that being much more palletable to your parents than animation.
Well guys this is a great thred to get help, so thought to put my dilama here too. And for a note I dont have any art education background, mostly I am self-tought and learnt from my current class.
I have already completed my BEngg in Computer science (2004). And after doing a job for more than a year (graphics design and programming) I am firm that I want to go for animation. It's my hobby since college time and fascination since my childhood. I had applied to MFA animation courses, but for SCAD I was told that I need more stuff in my portfolio. For Rochester Inst of Tech I was told that seats were filled, so am on waitlist for next fall.
Now here is the deal I already missed this fall (I am an international student, from India). And I want to start learning animation as soon as possible, I really am eager to start something. So I left my job and joined the only short course (6 months) available here. I am learning drawing and anatomy stuff to add more to my portfolio for MFA at SCAd. Now, I have also been accepted to BFA animation of scad as transfer student and offered 10K$ scholership for my portfolio. I am targetting SCAD Spring term, and resending portfolio with some 3d animation and more drawings for MFA. But in case I dont get in MFA, should I go for BFA without wasting more time? What's the feeling about doing 2 bachelor degrees in general? does it really matter if I do BFA or MFA? Only thing is BFA has some general art classes, I know they are part of it, but I want to be more and all the time focused on animation, like drawing stuff. I have also looked for some of the courses being offered in small schools or institues which solely teach animaiton for 2 years or so. But I am really confused in the following questions...
-What course or degree should I go for?? I have already studied bachelor for 4 years. I feel around 2 years is really confortable.
Here are my requirements,
I want to learn both 2d/3d animation,
I want to start as soon as possible so may be I cant wait till next fall,
Finance is a little issue, not that big may be, but still it is.
I may compromise the degree or level with good reasons...
Can you guys please help me?? I am struggeling to get out of this dilemma since a long long time. I want to start learning animation.
=~My Animation Blog~=
What's the rush?
Seriously, why the hurry?
Understand that taking courses and properly learning the material is going to take time, and learning to do this stuff AT A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL can take even more time.
Just taking some courses will likely not be enough to place your skills at a professional level.
It will probably give you technical insight, but it might not give you artistic improvement.
The more time ( and more courses) you take the better the chances are you will have those needed skills and aptitudes at the end of that process.
Otherwise, you might be thinking its just a matter lof getting the info and going ahead. Its not that easy, simple or quick.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Well ofcourse I need to rush. I am planning on animation study since last 2 years. The main issue is that we dont have any good art/animation institute here that will allow me to study till next fall. And if I have already got accepted to BFA for the next term why should I wait and spend my time here on small courses? I have been drawing and doing things since a long time, so I feel ready now and that's the thing which is making me to push myself more everyday.
If I wait till next fall, after my short classes are over after 6 months I will have to manage something to wait till fall. And that time I afraid will not be utilized really. So I dont want to wait till next fall term. I agree with you on artistic skills, but what if I cant really improve on that here if I wait.
Even thugh I have mention that I am comfortable with 2 years of study, I dont mind studying more. I just want to START studying animation.
Besides my real dilemma is if going for BFA or MFA after my BE comp. science really matters for animation, or for that matter, any good diploma courses or certificate course?
Thanks for the comments Ken!
=~My Animation Blog~=
A degree doesn't mean anything if your porfolio sucks. Don't rush it and make sure you hone your skills while in school. I would even recommend taking some classes twice(if your school allows it) to better your skills. I know I plan too take almost all my life drawing classes at twice just to better my skills.
Software: TVPaint Pro, Harmony Standalone, Storyboard Pro, Maya, Modo, Arnold, V-Ray, Maxwell, NukeX, Hiero, Mari, RealFlow, Avid, Adobe CS6
Hardware: (2) HP Z820 Workstations + 144-core Linux Render Farm + Cintiq 24HD Touch
I you cannot improve on that, then this will not be the career path for you--school will not help much more if you do not employ some self-exploration as well.
What mean by self-exploration is the fundermental skills: drawing, painting, story-structure, basic animation, back CGI software--there's loads of personal learning edition software out there, lots of books that can be ordered and shipped online. Literally tons of educational and training materials available that you can learn a great deal on your own, so that when your classes do start you have just that much more familliarity with the material.
If you've covered it before when you get to those classes, then consider it another practise session.
Schools are going to train you in tecnhologies and terchniques.........they will NOT give you much time to develop artistic skills. Without art skills, your efforts will likely be wasted.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
You are very true. I agree with you. But I am sorry I made things a little confusing. I do work on my artistic skills, in terms of drawing and other stuff(like 3d etc.). I left my good software job (in oppose of my father) to fully work on art for that matter. So it's not that I am not doing art or dont want to do it in spare time. I already have learnt 3dsmax on my own, and planning a short animation too. Also I am drawing everyday regularly and studying gesture drawings, anatomy. But main issue is I dont really have much guidance/resources, I have to do trial and error to improve. That is my main concern and that is why I have not grown much in past 2 years. For that I need a school and ofcourse resources. Of course internet is a huge source, and I literaly have many good tutorials, but it's just not helping me much. Like when I try to follow the instructions, but get something wrong many times, I really cant figure out where did I go wrong, or how can I correct something. So that weakness stays for a time until I dont realize on my own of what I have done wrong.
And I am really desperate to go to next level and self-teaching is not working for me so well. And well my classes that I am working with are good as compared to have nothing. We dont have any life-drawing classes in here. So forget it. I do live sketching instead, but it's difficult to study anatomy through it. So I feel high need of quality resource and guidance to push myself to next level.
Yes degree doesnt matter if portfolio sucks. But what if portfolio does not suck? I feel it does not really matter, but still I would like to know what other feel.
I hope you understand what I am saying. And yes here is some of my work, may be that will help you understand me better. I am not really that good, but I am trying everyday to improve.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maulik13/ &
http://maulik13.blogspot.com/
I appriciate your help! Thanks.
=~My Animation Blog~=
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