To me, it's whatever has the best story, no matter where it's from. My favourite animated movies consist mostly of films directed by Hayao Miyazaki and PIXAR movies.
As for the comment about anime having no fluid movement? Check out the trailer for the next Miyazaki moive...
Some of my favourite animated films are:
Spirited Away
Princess Mononoke
Wall-E
My Neighbor Totoro
Ratatouille
Porco Rosso
The Incredibles
I suppose I'll vote anime though, since a lot of people on this forum don't recognize Hayao Miyazaki's genius as a storyteller. :P
Your definitions are skewed and a bit too narrow.
Most TV animation over the past 45 years has been of the limited animation variety, an attribute that fits with "anime" to a tee. Most anime have far greater pencil mileage than western cartoons do, certainly western TV cartoons, putting them closer to western animated features in that respect.
It not to clear cut as anime and western features.
For my money, you can get great laughs from H&B's Huckleberry Hound as you can from a Warner Bros short, or just as many thrills or pathos from The Incredibles or Iron Giant as any anime.
Gimme Iron Giant any day.
But........foh da record........I'm NOT a fan of anime. I've looked over a lot of it, had a lot shoved under my nose, and........it does little for me.
Sure, the technical draughtsmanship is great, but the typical reliance on the same ( clichéd) pans, staggered mouths and grimaces, and speed-lines etc......its gets droll after a while.
Sure, proponents of anime argue that its not ALL like that.........and neither is western animation all like what their criticisms are either.
In the end, I simply do not care.......because taste is personal. The more the anime-kids try to sell me on anime, the greater my disdain grows--simply because its like trying to tell someone that boiled potatoes are better than mashed.
Well, I like my mashed taters, dammit, and I'm not gonna change foh non-one!:p
C: Neither.
For me, each film is its own entity, and I decide on a case-by-case basis whether I'm a fan.
For example:
Love "Porco Rosso", Liked "Spirited Away", Didn't like "Princess Mononoke"
Love "The Jungle Book", Liked "Mulan", Didn't like "The Aristocats"
Love "The Incredibles", Liked "Ratatouille", Didn't like "Finding Nemo"
Love "Kung Fu Panda", Liked "Antz", Didn't like "Shrek"
As for the comment about anime having no fluid movement? Check out the trailer for the next Miyazaki moive...
You're right, that has impressive movement for anime! I think the reason anime had less fluidity from the start was because Japanese studios were on a tight budget. Miyazaki's been so successful, we might see a reverse in that trend. By the way, I meant "is usually" to apply for almost the entire definition of anime. See, I'm being careful!
Your definitions are skewed and a bit too narrow.
I knew I was lumping something together. Are you saying that more recent western cartoons resembled anime? I'm lost. What would you suggest I change with the definitions? Anime not "strictly" Japanese?
~Sarah
I knew I was lumping something together. Are you saying that more recent western cartoons resembled anime? I'm lost. What would you suggest I change with the definitions? Anime not "strictly" Japanese?
No, I'm saying that by your saying that there's just two choices: Anime or Western animation, you overlook/deny aspects of both.
Western animation is not just "Disney"-style that features fluid animation, most of the animation produced for western consumption ( primarily TV animation) over the past 45 years has been LIMITED animation, of which anime shares many attributes.
The differences in limited animation between western usage and anime usage is largely stylized.
Layered pans, animated speed-line BG cycles, and stagger cycles for grimaces, and other expressions are all found in western limted animation, but used differently.
Some anime is full animation, done on ones or twos just like western feature animation--some is CGI.
Even if we are talking artistic styles......there's not that much common ground because quite a bit of Western animation has very diverse styles.
Bruce Timm/ Glen Murakami's Batman the Animated series is very different from Mike Judge's Beavis and Butthead, or Disney Gummi Bears--or even shows like Stickin' Around.
Personally, I find more homogenization with Anime, in terms of styles........but that could be some ignorance on my part, or just being exposed to only some of it, and not caring for the lot of it.
Mayhaps the poll should be a preference on limited animation as opposed to full animation--because that's a more succinct divide.
Why do we have to choose? Why can't we like both equally?
I love both western animation as well as anime. Both have positives and their negatives. There are just as many crappy western animated movies and TV shows as there are anime ones. Unfortunately there are much fewer good one than bad ones in both styles.
I'll just keep watching every thing I can.
Aloha,
the Ape
Ken Davis: I see what you mean, and I edited my post a bit to specify. It helps to imagine the top ten anime movies according to you vs. the same number of traditional ones. Which group wins and why?
I am a big Anime fan but I had to vote traditional.
one place where there is no comparison is content. there is no such thing as taboo in anime. the depth of the stories and mixing of different genres together to create something new is a common thing in anime. its a medium thats never really stagnant.
3 examples you can look into
classified as adult/hentai but it shouldnt be
kite uncut movie
youll have a hard time not finding something to like about this one
spice and wolf series
this one might surprise you
nodame cantabile series
I really hate that there's even a term to differentiate the way another country does it's animation. "Hey, spanish animation, SPANIME!" As far as I'm concerned, the only forms of 2d animation that exist is limited and full. It's really hard for me to differentiate when almost all of US animation is outsourced to the east. The Japanese are developing a more western influence and we are developing a more eastern influence, so in the end it just comes down to feature and tv animation.
Hiroyuki Imaishi and John K are basically doing the same thing in my opinion and I love them both.
Sorry, that didn't really answer your question:confused:
Hm, right. The first one to call my stuff Germanime is toast.
Assuming Tezuka "started it all", the Western influences have been there from the beginning. His style shows strong similarities to Disney's early newspaper strips.
I really hate that there's even a term to differentiate the way another country does it's animation. "Hey, spanish animation, SPANIME!" As far as I'm concerned, the only forms of 2d animation that exist is limited and full. It's really hard for me to differentiate when almost all of US animation is outsourced to the east. The Japanese are developing a more western influence and we are developing a more eastern influence, so in the end it just comes down to feature and tv animation.
Hiroyuki Imaishi and John K are basically doing the same thing in my opinion and I love them both.
Sorry, that didn't really answer your question:confused:
So maybe we should be calling this Manga and not anime?
traditional, everyone knows anime is just a reflection of disney
another way to look at it is the difference in games from the two countries. american games focus on the technology, american animation focuses more on technique. asian games and anime are more concerned with the artistic expression of each individual piece, from the music to the story to the animation. artistic expression is the most important thing about each and the combined whole
another way to look at it is the difference in games from the two countries. american games focus on the technology, american animation focuses more on technique. asian games and anime are more concerned with the artistic expression of each individual piece, from the music to the story to the animation. artistic expression is the most important thing about each and the combined whole
I am not sure I agree but I can not think of an example to counter you statement. There is a lot of transcontinental job sourcing in todays market so pure anime or pure western is a thing of the past.
Traditonal? Whose tradition?
:)
There’s good and bad in both formats. There are some really bad ‘traditional’ cartoons and some very good anime and vice versa. What ever looks good and entertains me gets my vote.
thats true has been for some time but there is usually a visible difference when its being done. take vampire hunter d thats a popular one, that a lot of people have seen. the first and the second one look and feel completely different. even though they were both made by people comfortable doing anime. the second one was made for an american audience. which turned it into something that had an anime layer on the top of it. but it had more in common with american cartoons than anime. when you take anime and subject it to the confines of american sensibilites it usually stops being anime to a large degree. the free flowing nature of anime without any restrictions on it. is what makes anime unique. once you remove that it becomes more of a hybrid than anime
I object to this thread; not because it asks an inflammatory, pointless question, but because it is founded upon the false assumption that anime qualifies as animation, which can only be true if we also classify other non-movey, non-lifey things like, say, "Clutch Cargo," as "animation," instead of what it really is: illustrated radio. And there's nothing wrong with that if it's done well, just don't call it what it isn't.
For Captain Crunch's sake, they spend half the damn show just standing still while two mouth-shapes cycle. Even South Park manages better than that.
The strongest animators right now are the French indies either way...
Comments
To me, it's whatever has the best story, no matter where it's from. My favourite animated movies consist mostly of films directed by Hayao Miyazaki and PIXAR movies.
As for the comment about anime having no fluid movement? Check out the trailer for the next Miyazaki moive...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=soghXmUd9CM
EDIT:
Some of my favourite animated films are:
Spirited Away
Princess Mononoke
Wall-E
My Neighbor Totoro
Ratatouille
Porco Rosso
The Incredibles
I suppose I'll vote anime though, since a lot of people on this forum don't recognize Hayao Miyazaki's genius as a storyteller. :P
Your definitions are skewed and a bit too narrow.
Most TV animation over the past 45 years has been of the limited animation variety, an attribute that fits with "anime" to a tee. Most anime have far greater pencil mileage than western cartoons do, certainly western TV cartoons, putting them closer to western animated features in that respect.
It not to clear cut as anime and western features.
For my money, you can get great laughs from H&B's Huckleberry Hound as you can from a Warner Bros short, or just as many thrills or pathos from The Incredibles or Iron Giant as any anime.
Gimme Iron Giant any day.
But........foh da record........I'm NOT a fan of anime. I've looked over a lot of it, had a lot shoved under my nose, and........it does little for me.
Sure, the technical draughtsmanship is great, but the typical reliance on the same ( clichéd) pans, staggered mouths and grimaces, and speed-lines etc......its gets droll after a while.
Sure, proponents of anime argue that its not ALL like that.........and neither is western animation all like what their criticisms are either.
In the end, I simply do not care.......because taste is personal. The more the anime-kids try to sell me on anime, the greater my disdain grows--simply because its like trying to tell someone that boiled potatoes are better than mashed.
Well, I like my mashed taters, dammit, and I'm not gonna change foh non-one!:p
C: Neither.
For me, each film is its own entity, and I decide on a case-by-case basis whether I'm a fan.
For example:
Love "Porco Rosso", Liked "Spirited Away", Didn't like "Princess Mononoke"
Love "The Jungle Book", Liked "Mulan", Didn't like "The Aristocats"
Love "The Incredibles", Liked "Ratatouille", Didn't like "Finding Nemo"
Love "Kung Fu Panda", Liked "Antz", Didn't like "Shrek"
You're right, that has impressive movement for anime! I think the reason anime had less fluidity from the start was because Japanese studios were on a tight budget. Miyazaki's been so successful, we might see a reverse in that trend. By the way, I meant "is usually" to apply for almost the entire definition of anime. See, I'm being careful!
I knew I was lumping something together. Are you saying that more recent western cartoons resembled anime? I'm lost. What would you suggest I change with the definitions? Anime not "strictly" Japanese?
~Sarah
No, I'm saying that by your saying that there's just two choices: Anime or Western animation, you overlook/deny aspects of both.
Western animation is not just "Disney"-style that features fluid animation, most of the animation produced for western consumption ( primarily TV animation) over the past 45 years has been LIMITED animation, of which anime shares many attributes.
The differences in limited animation between western usage and anime usage is largely stylized.
Layered pans, animated speed-line BG cycles, and stagger cycles for grimaces, and other expressions are all found in western limted animation, but used differently.
Some anime is full animation, done on ones or twos just like western feature animation--some is CGI.
Even if we are talking artistic styles......there's not that much common ground because quite a bit of Western animation has very diverse styles.
Bruce Timm/ Glen Murakami's Batman the Animated series is very different from Mike Judge's Beavis and Butthead, or Disney Gummi Bears--or even shows like Stickin' Around.
Personally, I find more homogenization with Anime, in terms of styles........but that could be some ignorance on my part, or just being exposed to only some of it, and not caring for the lot of it.
Mayhaps the poll should be a preference on limited animation as opposed to full animation--because that's a more succinct divide.
Why do we have to choose? Why can't we like both equally?
I love both western animation as well as anime. Both have positives and their negatives. There are just as many crappy western animated movies and TV shows as there are anime ones. Unfortunately there are much fewer good one than bad ones in both styles.
I'll just keep watching every thing I can.
Aloha,
the Ape
Ken Davis: I see what you mean, and I edited my post a bit to specify. It helps to imagine the top ten anime movies according to you vs. the same number of traditional ones. Which group wins and why?
I am a big Anime fan but I had to vote traditional.
one place where there is no comparison is content. there is no such thing as taboo in anime. the depth of the stories and mixing of different genres together to create something new is a common thing in anime. its a medium thats never really stagnant.
3 examples you can look into
classified as adult/hentai but it shouldnt be
kite uncut movie
youll have a hard time not finding something to like about this one
spice and wolf series
this one might surprise you
nodame cantabile series
I really hate that there's even a term to differentiate the way another country does it's animation. "Hey, spanish animation, SPANIME!" As far as I'm concerned, the only forms of 2d animation that exist is limited and full. It's really hard for me to differentiate when almost all of US animation is outsourced to the east. The Japanese are developing a more western influence and we are developing a more eastern influence, so in the end it just comes down to feature and tv animation.
Hiroyuki Imaishi and John K are basically doing the same thing in my opinion and I love them both.
Sorry, that didn't really answer your question:confused:
Hm, right. The first one to call my stuff Germanime is toast.
Assuming Tezuka "started it all", the Western influences have been there from the beginning. His style shows strong similarities to Disney's early newspaper strips.
So maybe we should be calling this Manga and not anime?
traditional, everyone knows anime is just a reflection of disney
another way to look at it is the difference in games from the two countries. american games focus on the technology, american animation focuses more on technique. asian games and anime are more concerned with the artistic expression of each individual piece, from the music to the story to the animation. artistic expression is the most important thing about each and the combined whole
I am not sure I agree but I can not think of an example to counter you statement. There is a lot of transcontinental job sourcing in todays market so pure anime or pure western is a thing of the past.
Traditonal? Whose tradition?
:)
There’s good and bad in both formats. There are some really bad ‘traditional’ cartoons and some very good anime and vice versa. What ever looks good and entertains me gets my vote.
thats true has been for some time but there is usually a visible difference when its being done. take vampire hunter d thats a popular one, that a lot of people have seen. the first and the second one look and feel completely different. even though they were both made by people comfortable doing anime. the second one was made for an american audience. which turned it into something that had an anime layer on the top of it. but it had more in common with american cartoons than anime. when you take anime and subject it to the confines of american sensibilites it usually stops being anime to a large degree. the free flowing nature of anime without any restrictions on it. is what makes anime unique. once you remove that it becomes more of a hybrid than anime
Anime or Traditional...
The strongest animators right now are the French indies either way...
http://www.gobelins.fr/index-flash.htm
:D
I object to this thread; not because it asks an inflammatory, pointless question, but because it is founded upon the false assumption that anime qualifies as animation, which can only be true if we also classify other non-movey, non-lifey things like, say, "Clutch Cargo," as "animation," instead of what it really is: illustrated radio. And there's nothing wrong with that if it's done well, just don't call it what it isn't.
For Captain Crunch's sake, they spend half the damn show just standing still while two mouth-shapes cycle. Even South Park manages better than that.
it doesnt matter how much you can bench press, that doesn't make you an animator
the best animators today are working for disney, and in the next few years you will see traditional at its best