Pitching an Idea for Cartoon Network Studios, request advice please!!

I guess this means that if you don't want to give up any of your creative control, you shouldn't pitch an idea for a cartoon to a network, and probably look for another line of work than animation.

The problem isn't about sharing creative control. Diligence and integrity always has room for collaboration. I don't think anyone here would be uncomfortable to share ideas and success with people that are hardworking and honest.

So it is a money/credit thing, you doing all the hard work, and someone else taking credit for it, and the bags of money that go with it? Something that is happening to the writers guild right now?

So it is a money/credit thing, you doing all the hard work, and someone else taking credit for it, and the bags of money that go with it? Something that is happening to the writers guild right now?

Its someone else's money after all, isn't it?
See, creative control is really someone letting YOU risk THEIR money on YOUR vision--unless you are bankrolling the thing yourself, in which case you can do what you want.
If you have no track record, and they are at all unsure about their trust in you, they will retain some kind of control over the project--just in case.
There's been enough horror stories about unmarketable self-indulgent projects over the years that investors do invest warily.

I mean, if you have the money all on your own......knock yerself out.......run with the vision you want in your own way. But once someone else chips in, they usually demand a say of some kind as security for their investment.
That's simple, smart business sense.

if they would put GOD in comics it would reach a lot of kids. I made a 22 page comic online at marvel called THE DAY THE AVENGERS MET GOD.
My 10 year old little girl red it and said I cant wait till they make the movie.
can any body help to get this done. thanks !

Given the recent success of adventure time and the amazing world of gumball, the former being rejected and now of their top shows and the latter being a show comprised entirely of rejected ideas, i think they will respond best to a pilot episode.
Pitching an idea is a huge leap you know, also, you might want to have a plot down for at least one season, a whole bunch of concept art, basically show them your ready to go. They will fund production for sure, but im not sure they will be ok about funding an idea, paying you to sit with some commissioned writers to think some more before starting.

A pilot will do wonders, it doesnt have to be great, and all your voice acting can be done for free, but if you go to a place like voiceacting alliance, for peanuts (figuratively, compared to the huge wages actual VA's make) you can get studio quality recordings for a pilot with fairly decent voice actors.

If the pilot fails, put it on youtube, make some noise, and if people flock to it, just like adventure time, they might reconsider.

Yeah, I heard a lot of network usually need show bibles to understand to show's concept more. Helps them decide whether they should accept I suppose.

Hi, first of all, can I just say that your idea is definitely a story worth pursuing. I am currently creating 2 ideas to pitch, so if they don't like one, they can choose the other. I would also like to say that if you want to protect your characters, then you can use 'poor man's copyright'. Simply place your idea in a sealed envelope, and sent it to your home address. This way, the post office has the date of when you sent it. If anyone takes the idea, you can take legal action and prove that you created it on that date. I'm not exactly sure of the process, but it works something like how I've just described it. Also, when (and if) you plan your episodes, the finale to the entire series could be something like the fantasy world combining with the real world, or, the house being destroyed with the gateway blocked off and all of his monster friends being stuck in the real world. You know what I'm trying to say...

I would also like to say that if you want to protect your characters, then you can use 'poor man's copyright'. Simply place your idea in a sealed envelope, and sent it to your home address. This way, the post office has the date of when you sent it. If anyone takes the idea, you can take legal action and prove that you created it on that date.

Don't do that.

Bite the bullet, go to www.copyright.gov, get the appropriate VA form, cough up the $45, do it right and do it now.

As far as the pitch goes, listen to SpaceGhost. The only thing I would add... your show needs to be character driven, and your characters need to.... well, not specifically grow, but be different for the experience for the better or not. I don't really agree with all stories being about heroes, specifically. "Antagonist" and "Protagonist" is better... "Hero" and "Villain" are really about your point of view, but I know what you mean SpaceGhost and i'm just sayin for sayin's sake.

I would also like to say that if you want to protect your characters, then you can use 'poor man's copyright'. Simply place your idea in a sealed envelope, and sent it to your home address. This way, the post office has the date of when you sent it. If anyone takes the idea, you can take legal action and prove that you created it on that date. I'm not exactly sure of the process, but it works something like how I've just described it.

Chaos is absolutely right - don't do this. It has never stood up in a copyright infringement action. This is basically an urban legend with very looooong legs...

The official copyright filing is the way to go. If you're pitching ideas to networks, $45 is cheap insurance. And if you don't value your idea enough to copyright it correctly, why should anyone else value it either?

Hi there, just read your insight into creative control. If my show becomes successful, I want to involve people in my story- if the animators are animating your cartoon, the director directing it, and the producers producing it, then why not give them a little creative control? I'm going to let animators add in things that they want, for example, a room would feature furniture made by the animators, etcetera. The word creator may sound like you have control of everything, but it is a team effort, and at the end of the day, they should be able to add to the cartoon they are working with...:cool:

Hey quetzl1, I agree with you, it is a team effort.

If you're response is referring to me, I was looking more for what makes the director the director, the producer the producer, and etc. Every now and then, when I review the crew of a film or series, some of the names are attributed to more than one title. I understand it now... or understand it as much as I could without actually living it.

I think it's great that you're so trusting, and, as you said, your idea is relatively simple, but if I were you I wouldn't post it on the internet... especially not such a widely used forum. Anyone could read your idea and take it to Cartoon Network.

Seriously. EVERYONE has great ideas. EVERYONE! If I was the kind of guy who would want to pitch an idea for a television show to a studio, I'm sure I would be exploding with ideas.

I wouldn't worry about it. Getting the copyright, before you pitch it, would probably be useful, but protecting your idea from the monsters from the internet? Please....

Anyway, as for the original topic. Simply show that your better than everyone else. If you don't, you probably don't have a chance with your show. Television is after all...kinda competitive. And there are a lot of people that pitch shows.

Series bibles? Sure, whatever! I've created four at the moment. One is nearly complete, and the other 3 are in the development stage. If anyone is struggling with ideas, then I can give you some. Just place your request on this page, and next time I post I will list as many as I can. By the way, this list is for anyone to use, so feel free to snatch any suggestion I place on it;) And before you respond, if you're thinking 'why take his ideas, what makes him so special?' let me clear you in on something: I don't mean to, but ideas for cartoons constantly float around in my head, I can literally see entire series unfolding in my mind, and as an added bonus, every character that I visualize is given a back- story almost automatically. Think I'm lying? ask me for an idea and I will give you one, or, do it yourself- yours might be better than mine: but if you're really stuck, then ask for an idea, I can give you hundreds...;)

Ok, I see now that 'poor man's copyright' isn't the best option to go. That's fine, but seriously, do think about protecting your ideas. The only reason for mentioning this method is because I come from England, and this method is recognized by our legal system. I just assumed that the procedure was recognized in the U.S, and clearly I am mistaken, for which I apologize.:)

Four bibles? I am pretty sure you only need one...well, you do need copies of course. Anyway, you also need connections with people working in the business, or at least have been working in animation for a few years. And I do need some help with a few basic ideas. But I won't be pitching them anytime soon. XP

Thanks for your encouragement. The reason I am creating four is so that if one doesn't work, they can choose between the other three- this isn't a method to ensure I get a cartoon on the airwaves, but instead gives them an indication, or range, of stories to possibly develop. The entire process is going to take me six years to write, and my attic will soon be turned into my cartoon- producing lair mwahahahaha! As for the stories, just ask when you need an idea, I'm a very laid- back person. :cool:

Hi, so anyway, I located the page with all the insight into what the companies expect, simply type in- http://www.awn.com/mag/issue5.06/5.06pages/pitchsurvey.php3
This will tell you everything you need to know.
By the way, nice idea. I generally don't divulge information about my cartoon conceptions, as I am slightly paranoid that someone will steal them, but I can say this- If my idea makes it onto the airwaves, there won't be an idea like it for a long, long time (I don't mean to brag, but if you was me, you'd understand). Part of my motivation for my ideas is changing the way people look at cartoons- for example, most adults say that cartoons are for children- I want (and every other cartoonist) to change all that. I want to create something that can make people cry, laugh, smile, and doubt themselves, if you know what I mean. What people fail to grasp is that cartoons are like real situations- it's only because of the way they're presented that people don't take them seriously (I'm not saying everyone does, but most do, even my family are puzzled on why I chose this for a future career), but frankly, I don't care- they just can't accept that they broke their backs doing physical labour, when I can just work on a computer all day, hardly needing to move. And personally, I believe that life is for living, not working. The reason I chose to become a cartoonist is so that I could re- live my childhood in an adult and professional way (instead of being frowned upon by all those jerks who can't see why animation is, without a doubt, the best form of entertainment). Like Maxwell Atoms said (that has got to be the coolest name ever!) 'the only limit in cartoons is the imagination'.

Oh yeah, and, you don't need to be an animator to get a cartoon on tv. I read this blog presented by this woman who works at cartoon network, and their basic message is 'Just show us some of the things you have (early sketches, concept art), tell us what kind of cartoon you want to make, and we'll take it from there. That's how we like to start the development process'. So anyway, these companies don't expect pilots and theme tunes- as long as you have an good idea, they can take it from whatever stage. Another person on that blog said 'I'd rather see 2 pages than 20'- No Joke! So don't get too fussed about it.:)

I'm seeing a problem here. A network is putting money on the table to produce an animated series, fine. But, they also cancel the show, based on viewer statistics. So, effectively, the people who decide if your show stays on (the viewers), are not the same as the people who decide if your show gets on in the first place.

It's all up to the network to predict if a show is going to be succesful. I guess that means they will be going for the familiar --read: what already has been succesful in the past.

Shouldn't you then be pitching a kind of rehash of existing (succesful) stories, instead of an original story?

I always thought the original stories were for the independents, not for the syndicated stuff, but I could be wrong.

Oh yeah, and, you don't need to be an animator to get a cartoon on tv. I read this blog presented by this woman who works at cartoon network, and their basic message is 'Just show us some of the things you have (early sketches, concept art), tell us what kind of cartoon you want to make, and we'll take it from there. That's how we like to start the development process'. So anyway, these companies don't expect pilots and theme tunes- as long as you have an good idea, they can take it from whatever stage. Another person on that blog said 'I'd rather see 2 pages than 20'- No Joke! So don't get too fussed about it.:)

United States CN does that!? Awesome, I never really realized that.

This thread seems to have gone onto a tangent about protecting your work. This seems to happen a lot in these types of discussions. Protecting your work is a great idea, but I think a lot of people spend more time worrying about their precious ideas being stolen than developing them. The likelihood of someone's idea being so stupendous and original that studios and other artists latch onto it to make it their own is quite unlikely.

First of all, anyone who thinks their idea is absolutely unique is fooling oneself. It simply means you haven't read enough, seen enough, etc. to notice the similarities to copious amounts of other entertainment. Secondly, sure, someone may come along and see a person's idea and be inspired by that premise and their own experience and develop something similar. That isn't a crime, it isn't stealing. It's art. Find me a story that doesn't link back to another, that doesn't root back to Shakespeare or Greek mythology and so on.

Lastly, if you put together a great pitch, present yourself well, show them something marketable and come across as a valuable artist; studios will see you as an asset. It is cheaper for them to hire the person that already did the grunt work than start from scratch with "someone else's idea."

Are there exceptions to this? Of course...but exception means rare.

No one has ever been successful because they had a great idea or stole someone else's. They were successful because they developed that idea and did the legwork to get it produced.

P.S. I apologize if I have inspired this tangent to continue even further.

does anyone like the story? :)

It sounds kind of like "Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends," but plus a little Halloween.

Well, although I love that pitching guide, I think it should be updated. After all, Cartoon Network recently got a new head of original programming...so you just got to wonder what his take on pitching is. :D

Precisely the question. The fact is, yes, this is your idea, and I shouldn't worry about if your cartoon is similar to another show. The truth is, a completely original and 'never-been-done-before' idea is impossible. Every major storyline has up to now, been done, and in today's world you can only produce ideas from existing ideas. All you have to do, is take the cartoon your show is similar to, and look at your own. You will realize that although it seems similar, every idea is different in one way or another, and theoretically, no cartoon can ever be alike. Also, don't let my statement about 'poor man's copyright' put you off, I do like feedback now and then...:rolleyes:

Poor Man's Copyright? Picthing? I just had to join a forum where I don't understand hlaf the stuff people are talking about. Well, there is no such thing as a completely oringinal idea. It's the basic idea that's common, it's where you can go with it that matters I guess. So yeah, don't worry. As for pitching the show, you might want to expand your idea for a little while more (like two or three years min.) before pitching it to any network. Also, learn what they need for a pitch. Actually, they might want you to make a pilot if they are interested. But really, I have no clue. :o

That's kind of depressing to say, fellows. "There are no more original ideas..." "All the stories worth telling have been told..."

Well, here's my attitude towards it: I agree on an academic level, but no one has told your point of view or vision. Same as your signature or fingerprint, you have a unique way of seeing the world and your goal as a filmmaker... no, as a storyteller is to "tell your stories your way". Draw from your life experiences. Draw from the life experiences of people you know. No one has lived your life, so that in itself is originality.

And hey, new guys, don't worry too much if some of us pounce on the stuff you say. I've learned so much, just from reading the posts of the professionals here. Here's the trick: Know when to read and learn, and know when to contribute and debate. I'm still working on that trick myself!

To those in the business:

What about creative control? My understanding of the matter is that pitching isn't the same as having creative control over the feature or series. Though the politics of each studio varies, are there any guidelines to have such control?

Questions spurred from seeing this: http://books.google.com/books?id=59Xhbi8d5w8C&pg=PA164&lpg=PA164&dq=creative+control+entertainment+in+animation+series&source=web&ots=uBoayqIJWf&sig=gUNBg2riQjzwFBNBS3iaKm0fWHc&hl=en#PPA154,M1

I'm looking for what defines the titles of creator, director, and producer in terms of creative control, story conception and development.

To those in the business:

What about creative control? My understanding of the matter is that pitching isn't the same as having creative control over the feature or series. Though the politics of each studio varies, are there any guidelines to have such control?

Questions spurred from seeing this: http://books.google.com/books?id=59Xhbi8d5w8C&pg=PA164&lpg=PA164&dq=creative+control+entertainment+in+animation+series&source=web&ots=uBoayqIJWf&sig=gUNBg2riQjzwFBNBS3iaKm0fWHc&hl=en#PPA154,M1

I'm looking for what defines the titles of creator, director, and producer in terms of creative control, story conception and development.

Well, the creator usually says what can and can't be done to his characters and such. Usually the executive producer is the creator, but it can also be the person that finances the show. On this occasion, as well as if the creator doesn't want to be that involved in the show anymore, all animatics (and a few other things, maybe) is run by him/her. The director controls the aspects of a certain episode of the series. He controls the creativity or the episode, as well as the visual aspects and such. This can be hindered by the executive producer (or the executive producer in charge of production from the network). And the producer is someone who also have creative control over the series in some way, but less than the actual executive producer.

At least, that's what I think. I'm just 13, so what would I know. :o

To those in the business:

What about creative control? My understanding of the matter is that pitching isn't the same as having creative control over the feature or series. Though the politics of each studio varies, are there any guidelines to have such control?

I'm looking for what defines the titles of creator, director, and producer in terms of creative control, story conception and development.

Pitching is just the selling of the property. All you are doing is getting interested parties on board to help finance and physically produce the thing.
Creative control is a very different animal, and one that is negotiated once the pitch is sold and the parties at the table decide to make a deal.

Here's the thing about creative control.......everyone wants it , no-one wants to relinquish it, but someone has to.
Guess who that usually is?

That's right, you......the creator.
If you have no track record, expect little or no creative control unless you are a helluva salesman. Creative control would mean putting yourself personally on the line, and with the money that get's thrown around, that can be a crippling responsibility to shoulder.
Creative control really spells out as one thing only: veto power.
You don't like something, maybe you want to change something......if you have creative control you can make that call. Without it, you have to negotiate your objections or interests, or you compromise.
Veto power ultimately means power over what the money is going towards, what is going to be emphasized or not in the production........and with outside investors, that kind of thing can make people nervous about creative types.

I cannot recall anyone who got extensive creative control the first time out of the gate on a big money project--though there may be one or two folks.
If that took place, they were probably someone bringing in some reputation from outside that gave them the cachet to hold control.
Most projects that I have heard of involved considerable compromise and relinquishing of creative control by the series creator.

Imagine, a creator getting frustrated with the way a project is unfolding, and they exercise a hypothetical veto power (creative control) and stop production, or worse......pull it the whole thing midstream. Given the millions of dollars involved in shows today, damn..........that'd almost be cause enough to have someone offed and dumped in the river.
So creative control usually isn't solely vested into the creator--its shared by the creator, producer and director.

The producer is the "money" person--essentially the one who facilitates the administrative part of the production, oversees the facility, materials, staff, funding, and all the managerial aspects of a project. The business "buck" stops with them.
The director is the guiding hand on the crafting of the project itself--the mind behind realizing all the creative decisions that translate to film.
In many respects, the creator is just a figurehead--really just there to offer guidance and insight to the material to keep the project on track and in the spirit of the original idea.
The key thing is that no-one "has to" listen to the creator in a real sense, although usually they are the best source of insight into what works and what doesn't with their creation.
Consider them to be a kind of consultant--tapped occasionally when someone is unsure if a character would do this or that, or if a situation would work better one way as opposed to another.

Thanks racattackjunction, those were some of the things I initially had in mind before getting Ken Davis's response.

Thanks Ken for the thorough response. In the instance of Avatar: the Last Airbender, I noticed that Michael Dante DiMartino and Brian Konietzo co-create and co-produce the series, and likewise write and sometimes direct. Aaron Ehasz is in the mix of co-producer and writer as well. And then there is Genndy Tartakovsky with a title of creator and producer, often directing and writing throughout.

Of course, this type of creative control comes from much industry experience and a track record. I have some work to do it seems.

Oh yea, there's no reason you could not be the creator, producer and director of the project--but it'd be a LOT of hats to wear and very, very few people have the stones to tackle all that.

I guess this means that if you don't want to give up any of your creative control, you shouldn't pitch an idea for a cartoon to a network, and probably look for another line of work than animation.

I've read about guys who pitch ideas and they write up a whole bible about the show and have concept art of literally everywhere in the show's world and characters.

I guess this means that if you don't want to give up any of your creative control, you shouldn't pitch an idea for a cartoon to a network, and probably look for another line of work than animation.

Or you should get some work in the field by working on other shows. before pitching.

To be honest I always wanted to produce and create my own series since I was six. Ive already created 3 series but I dont wanna tell anyone else the ideas cause their mine. I just really ant to know the first step to doing hat. I want my dreams to come true. I want to know what universities I need to take since im still in high school choosing my classes. I really dont care the amount of money I make, I only want people to see my style of making cartoons. I want to entertain the world of my series. And much more, I dont care about the fame. I just want to make my series to come true in the future. Now the question that i have is, what should I take in university? How do I get hired in cartoon network? What university do I go to?